Decoding the �why� of 1948/1949 Leaf Sets

G1911 · #1 10-29-2023, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks87

Greg - thanks for this. I just cracked the shell on the boxing set, it's great to get these insights. Below is the picture of the Joe Louis that I missed on eBay, now I wish I would have pursued it a little more aggressively.

What I am realizing is that Leaf's card production was in a constant state of flux. I recently picked up a lot of the 1948 Pirate cards, and according to Ted Z, these hit first. The puzzling thing about the lot is that 10 of the 15 cards in the lot are unnumbered. The spacing on the top line was changed to accommodate the addition of the numbers. My thought here is that they pushed out an initial run, and realized by numbering them (skip numbering in reality) kids would chase the set. So that was changed moving forward. There are only 4 total cards graded by PSA with no number, so the run must have been relatively small. Chalk it up to more variations on the ever changing Leaf sets.

Thank you, I totally missed that Louis. My collection mostly ends at 1912 but I’ve done a couple leaf sets and casually pick up oddities (I was the underbidder on that Fitzsimmons blank back). Love that PSA just slabs it as a normal card lol. That the colored background is shaped and designed to fit around both Louis and Hostak show it is not an ‘error’ and another cards blue layer added or something, but intentionally designed for these cards. I wonder if we will find similar versions of the other white background boxers.

In addition to the purple/red glove differences in some of the cards the Jeffries and Greb cards come in what seem to be to me intentional design changes, with their shirts in white, blue, or with only half of it blue. Just in case that is a helpful change to note for your research. EDIT: So does Lou Ambers, forgot him originally.

Exhibitman · #2 10-29-2023, 04:19 PM

That Louis is fantastic. My hunch is sample or prototype. The white stock makes sense since that appears to be the earliest stock used.

yanks87 · #3 10-30-2023, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Thank you, I totally missed that Louis. My collection mostly ends at 1912 but I�ve done a couple leaf sets and casually pick up oddities (I was the underbidder on that Fitzsimmons blank back). Love that PSA just slabs it as a normal card lol. That the colored background is shaped and designed to fit around both Louis and Hostak show it is not an �error� and another cards blue layer added or something, but intentionally designed for these cards. I wonder if we will find similar versions of the other white background boxers.

In addition to the purple/red glove differences in some of the cards the Jeffries and Greb cards come in what seem to be to me intentional design changes, with their shirts in white, blue, or with only half of it blue. Just in case that is a helpful change to note for your research.

There's no shortage of oddities in Leaf. My thinking is that there is probably a full sheet of salesman samples for the Boxing, Football, and Baseball cards. The ones that have serious changes, like background colors or different fronts were corrected in the main run of the cards. If this is the case, the rest of the cards that filled the sheet probably look like the main run of the cards, like a Sid Luckman, which would explain why there is a such a low population on certain cards that don't conform to the rest of the set. Thanks for sharing your insights, this all helps to dial in a solid theory!

tedzan · #4 10-30-2023, 12:57 PM

And then, there is BLUE or no BLUE.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

yanks87 · #5 10-30-2023, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

And then, there is BLUE or no BLUE.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

I love that Platt card. If ever there was an example of letting the ink run out, there it is!

G1911 · #6 10-30-2023, 01:09 PM

Here's another interesting Leaf that may be useful. The Great John L is supposed to look like the normal card on left (though not miscut!). This copy on right has him without the blue pants. However, I do not believe this is really an 'ink ran out' situation because the outline of his pants and belt is still in bold blue. If blue ink was out, it shouldn't be outlined instead of filled in in the normal shade and depth of color.

Unlike the Hostak, Louis and Graziano's, this Sullivan is a gray stock card.

I have always been suspicious of the Graziano. The picture quality is so different from every other card in the set.

G1911 · #7 10-30-2023, 01:14 PM

Going through my archive now for anything else that might be useful to Leaf researchers. This Chalky Wright is not mine. Weird, even for a Leaf. Not sure I've seen another one in any of the sets quite like it. The others errors are also not mine; I only own the white pants Sullivan out of all these.

2 copies of the sheet shown as well, also not mine. The numbering is largely in order vertically down a column.

yanks87 · #8 10-30-2023, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Going through my archive now for anything else that might be useful to Leaf researchers. This Chalky Wright is not mine. Weird, even for a Leaf. Not sure I've seen another one in any of the sets quite like it. The others errors are also not mine; I only own the white pants Sullivan out of all these.

2 copies of the sheet shown as well, also not mine. The numbering is largely in order vertically down a column.

That's a whole lot of fun. Errors are amazing, just an example of the "anything goes" approach to printing. All of those overprints are flipped, they had the red and blue plates right, then flipped the sheet for the black hit, love it. Chalky Wright is missing his black plate, but looks to be early on in the print run as that red is SATURATED! This is all great materials to have, as I had said before, I am just getting into the boxing, and I had hoped it would have been the easy one, but alas, Leaf Printing is synonymous with lack of Quality Control!

yanks87 · #9 10-30-2023, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Here's another interesting Leaf that may be useful. The Great John L is supposed to look like the normal card on left (though not miscut!). This copy on right has him without the blue pants. However, I do not believe this is really an 'ink ran out' situation because the outline of his pants and belt is still in bold blue. If blue ink was out, it shouldn't be outlined instead of filled in in the normal shade and depth of color.

Unlike the Hostak, Louis and Graziano's, this Sullivan is a gray stock card.

I have always been suspicious of the Graziano. The picture quality is so different from every other card in the set.

This could be one of the cards that was featured in the salesman sample set. Since the trunks are in blue, it is definitely not the ink running out, rather a plate change to affect the look of the card. It sounds like the card stock backs that up as well.

I attached the Newhouser example for those who haven't seen it, just to illustrate that there are only a couple of cards that fall outside the 7x7=49 cards per sheet runs. This would be the equivalent of a Graziano to me, as the image totally changed from sample to production, probably because you couldn't tell who it was!

G1911 · #10 10-30-2023, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks87

This could be one of the cards that was featured in the salesman sample set. Since the trunks are in blue, it is definitely not the ink running out, rather a plate change to affect the look of the card. It sounds like the card stock backs that up as well.

I attached the Newhouser example for those who haven't seen it, just to illustrate that there are only a couple of cards that fall outside the 7x7=49 cards per sheet runs. This would be the equivalent of a Graziano to me, as the image totally changed from sample to production, probably because you couldn't tell who it was!

The 1 of a kind Newhouser is, in my eyes, as cool as post-war cards get. There's a few Rocky's out there, but only one of this card.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
WTB: 1948 Leaf, 1949 Leaf Baseball/Football cards	tnosmoothly	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	06-11-2020 12:40 AM
1948 & 1949 LEAF FB cards....show us your LEAF's	tedzan	Football Cards Forum	29	12-28-2016 04:51 AM
1948 or 1949 Leaf	Archive	Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)	2	01-16-2008 07:32 AM
Basic Differences of 1948 vs 1949 LEAF Sports Sets	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	0	04-14-2005 05:08 PM
1949 Leaf set - NOT 1948!!	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	50	04-11-2005 01:23 PM