1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Michael,

The person who put the price on the cards-not saying the dealer-knew they were false.

I also direct your attention to the advertisement border design. This was a knockoff of Holsum Bread, but a cheap one. It doesn't look like a pattern from the 1920s, but an imitation for the 1970s.

Sorry, the cards are fakes and in the case of fakes to help the con they need to be in various stages of use to help with sales.

First, I saw them in May 1999 and had an honest. Then the same group hit eBay in 2004. A "new" group came to attention in 2019. Waiting for the next group of this fraud in 2034. The fifteen year rule so everyone forgets. 2004, 2019, 2034.

Okay. I guess this is one of those threads where no one is going to change anyone's mind.

But to summarize:

You think they are fake because the dealer thought they were fake. And the dealer thought they were fake because someone had written prices on the back. And this applies to cards found later without prices on the back which neither you or the dealer has seen in person. And to the PSA 6 Collins which doesn't seem like it was from either find.

I am not an expert on design so I cannot state whether the Herpsolsheimer's borders look more 70s than 20s. But I disagree that cheap is the same as less ornate. If they wanted to be cheap, why have a border at all? Many similar cards have no border and are deemed to be real.

We disagree on the whether the condition is relevant. You are saying that the condition varies because it is more convincing of an actual find. I am saying the condition varies because it is an actual find. I don't think there is a way to prove either one of these to the other person's satisfaction.

I am not aware of a 15-year rule for release of fraudulent cards. Is that a known span of time that has happened for other card frauds? If so it is not a very good rule, because no one forgot!

In fact, the 2004 sale is specifically mentioned by LOTG in their description for the Babe Ruth card (and for several other cards).

[Brian Van Horn]

Michael,

I agree we agree we disagree. There are now more variables on agree in the last sentence than "Peckinpaugh/Peckinbaugh" to be produced by possibly 2034 with a Herpolsheimer back. Oh, the market value! Mostly by way of manure. Still, there is now the variable of Artificial Intelligence, a person working as a printer and that person's access to the proper paper from the time to put on the fraud not only on the "latter" Herpolsheimer set, but on other yet to be discovered frauds.....err.....umm.....finds. Oh, what the future holds for collecting. Yikes. My delivery of honesty in a completely different way than the dealer in May 1999. It can be possible that it was simply his honesty that delayed the "discovery" (LOL to the reference) in 2004.