1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Jason,

Can I direct your attention to the synopsis in the white of the website below the page you offered in your information


https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

"A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s."

I apologize, but this paragraph eliminates the design.

It eliminates it from being a disco-inspired design from the 1970s. It does not mean the design was not in use earlier. Design 6M434N matches the Holsum Bread design. So either your Holsum Bread card is fake or it is possible that a design used in the late 1930s was also used in the 1920s.

[jggames]

Originally Posted by molenick

It eliminates it from being a disco-inspired design from the 1970s. It does not mean the design was not in use earlier. Design 6M434N matches the Holsum Bread design. So either your Holsum Bread card is fake or it is possible that a design used in the late 1930s was also used in the 1920s.

Exactly.

[Brian Van Horn]

[QUOTE=jggames;2392131]Exactly.[/QUOTE


Nope.

[molenick]

I don't know what "nope" means in this case. Please elaborate.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by molenick

I don't know what "nope" means in this case. Please elaborate.

1. We disagree.
2. The "Herpolsheimer's" brand, not the 1916 one, but the one we have been discussing, is not from 1921, but from a later date. Have an older looking design makes the fakes easier to sell.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

1. We disagree.
2. The "Herpolsheimer's" brand, not the 1916 one, but the one we have been discussing, is not from 1921, but from a later date. Have an older looking design makes the fakes easier to sell.

Before you said (many times) that you didn't like the 1921 border because it looked like a 1970s design.

Now that someone has shown that the design existed well before 1970, you seem to be saying you don't like them because having "an older looking design makes the fakes easier to sell".

As far as I can tell, your only basis for calling the cards fake is that a dealer in 1999 said they were.

When you mention there is no address on the back, others point out that that is in keeping with earlier Herpolsheimer's cards, printed Herpolsheimer's ads, and other 1921 cards (like Holsum Bread Standard Biscuit).

When you question why no ads were placed in 1921 newspapers for the cards, someone finds an ad.

When you say the borders are from the 1970s, someone finds proof that they are not. Which somehow you use to support that the cards are fake.

Your argument is essentially they are fake because I know they are counterfeit because someone told me they are not real. I do not count "LOL" and "I will not be bidding" as arguments. Nor do I see the relevance of AI being used in the future to counterfeit cards, speculation that the next batch is due in 2034, or the fact that it is possible to counterfeit cards.

I am curious if the dealer from 1999 has looked at every card in your collection. Otherwise, how do you know they are not all fakes?

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by molenick

Before you said (many times) that you didn't like the 1921 border because it looked like a 1970s design.

Now that someone has shown that the design existed well before 1970, you seem to be saying you don't like them because having "an older looking design makes the fakes easier to sell".

As far as I can tell, your only basis for calling the cards fake is that a dealer in 1999 said they were.

When you mention there is no address on the back, others point out that that is in keeping with earlier Herpolsheimer's cards, printed Herpolsheimer's ads, and other 1921 cards (like Holsum Bread).

When you question why no ads were placed in 1921 newspapers for the cards, someone finds an ad.

When you say the borders are from the 1970s, someone finds proof that they are not. Which somehow you use to support that the cards are fake.

Your argument is essentially they are fake because I know they are counterfeit because someone told me they are not real. I do not count "LOL" and "I will not be bidding" as arguments. Nor do I see the relevance of AI being used in the future to counterfeit cards, speculation that the next batch is due in 2034, or the fact that it is possible to counterfeit cards.

I am curious if the dealer from 1999 has looked at every card in your collection. Otherwise, how do you know they are not all fakes?

Before 1970, but the dealer indicated the cards were made in the 1970's and it still looks like a 1970's disco floor design but keep me in mind some 1970's disco floor designs harked back to the 1930's and 1940's and the link in the previous post placed the design in those years.

"When you mention there is no address on the back, others point out that that is in keeping with earlier Herpolsheimer's cards, printed Herpolsheimer's ads, and other 1921 cards (like Holsum Bread)."

There was only one other Herpolsheimer's set of cards which was the real group from 1916. No address. 1921 Holsum Bread? Please see the attachments. Showing front just so you know who is on the card and back for the address.

"Your argument is essentially they are fake because I know they are counterfeit because someone told me they are not real. I do not count "LOL" and "I will not be bidding" as arguments. Nor do I see the relevance of AI being used in the future to counterfeit cards, speculation that the next batch is due in 2034, or the fact that it is possible to counterfeit cards."

I saw the cards, I discussed with the dealer, I handled the cards and I looked at the back design and he mentioned that they were made in the 1970's. It is incredibly possible to counterfeit cards. Feel free to do a Google search. AI will simply make this a higher tech accomplishment in the future.

"I am curious if the dealer from 1999 has looked at every card in your collection. Otherwise, how do you know they are not all fakes?[/QUOTE]"

LOL with all due respect and Thank you!

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by molenick

It eliminates it from being a disco-inspired design from the 1970s. It does not mean the design was not in use earlier. Design 6M434N matches the Holsum Bread design. So either your Holsum Bread card is fake or it is possible that a design used in the late 1930s was also used in the 1920s.

Nope.

[Yoda]

And the beat goes on. Cher.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by Yoda

And the beat goes on. Cher.

Well, Cher was big in the 1970's and the design on the back of the "1921" Herpolsheimer's would have fit in well as a floor design for her performances.