Probstein video about trimmed cards

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

But it shouldn't be Probstein's job to hold a trial on every hobbyist that gets blasted by hobby clowns on social media. them.

While I appreciate the thought, as it is something that obviously concerns me too, the idea that the card doctors are worthy of defense and those who are trying to expose them are described as hobby clowns is somewhat interesting.

[rhettyeakley]

We hold those that sell and deal in the cards we care about to such a low standard that all these shenanigans are accepted…as long as the item is shipped quickly 🤣

Other hobbies/industries have an established set of ethics that must be upheld to continue to be part of the community…

This industry is NOT one of those. We accept card-doctors, liars, cheaters, thieves, pumpers-dumpers and all around sleaze-balls.

Not sure why we (as a community) do it but we have sent the clear message that “stuff” trumps ethics.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

We hold those that sell and deal in the cards we care about to such a low standard that all these shenanigans are accepted…as long as the item is shipped quickly 🤣

Other hobbies/industries have an established set of ethics that must be upheld to continue to be part of the community…

This industry is NOT one of those. We accept card-doctors, liars, cheaters, thieves, pumpers-dumpers and all around sleaze-balls.

Not sure why we (as a community) do it but we have sent the clear message that “stuff” trumps ethics.

I find fascinating the amount of cynicism on this issue from members who seem very uncynical about many other things.

I guess it just comes down to money? If you or someone else is making a bunch of it, then who really cares about right and wrong? Now THAT is emblematic of out society today...

[Leon]

Money

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

We hold those that sell and deal in the cards we care about to such a low standard that all these shenanigans are accepted…as long as the item is shipped quickly 🤣

Other hobbies/industries have an established set of ethics that must be upheld to continue to be part of the community…

This industry is NOT one of those. We accept card-doctors, liars, cheaters, thieves, pumpers-dumpers and all around sleaze-balls.

Not sure why we (as a community) do it but we have sent the clear message that “stuff” trumps ethics.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

While I appreciate the thought, as it is something that obviously concerns me too, the idea that the card doctors are worthy of defense and those who are trying to expose them are described as hobby clowns is somewhat interesting.

+100

Always the same people defending as well.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

+100

Always the same people defending as well.

Not really, it depends on WHO is being called out by who defends them.

[Steve D]

I look at it this as more of a discussion about "eye appeal", than of trimming.

There are plenty of cards that are untrimmed, but have poor eye appeal for the grade; I stay away from those, as even if you pay a low price, you still have a card you think is ugly.

On the other hand, there are cards that have outstanding eye appeal for the grade, and some of them may be trimmed. The bottom line for me, is the eye appeal.....if the eye appeal is good to me, it doesn't really matter if it might be trimmed; I know I like the card, but I do not know for certain that it is trimmed.

Basically, for me, if the eye appeal outweighs the possibility of trimming, then I would probably enjoy having the card.

Steve

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I look at it this as more of a discussion about "eye appeal", than of trimming.

There are plenty of cards that are untrimmed, but have poor eye appeal for the grade; I stay away from those, as even if you pay a low price, you still have a card you think is ugly.

On the other hand, there are cards that have outstanding eye appeal for the grade, and some of them may be trimmed. The bottom line for me, is the eye appeal.....if the eye appeal is good to me, it doesn't really matter if it might be trimmed; I know I like the card, but I do not know for certain that it is trimmed.

Basically, for me, if the eye appeal outweighs the possibility of trimming, then I would probably enjoy having the card.

Steve

Well, the eye appeal thing makes sense, but the trimming part most are referencing has to do with cards that are receiving high numerical grades which translates to $$$$ (many cases it's not petty cash).

There's a lot in play. Start with "ethics: Those that trim for the purpose of deception; grading companies that turn a blind eye; sellers that don't give a crap; investors that only care about making a buck and don't care about the hobby impacts.

Proceed to FRAUD. The end result is a community of hobbyist/collectors/investors that all have different views on it. Go back to ethics and start there.

[molenick]

I am trying to complete a high grade Diamond Stars set. I do my best to avoid cards that have been "outed" on the Blowout board or that look trimmed to my eye, and I only buy from reputable auction houses. But at this point, it is possible probable that I have some trimmed cards. I don't have the heart to research every one and it makes me wary of buying any more cards in higher condition.

After Blowout started posting before/after photos of trimmed cards, I was contacted by PWCC and they offered to buy back the cards they sold me that were listed (I got an email from them about each card). I can't remember, but this was maybe two or three Leafs in total. I also found an E card that was listed and they bought that back as well. I am guessing this was in 2019 or 2020. I have not had this happen with other sellers. Of course, PWCC was the one selling the trimmed cards in the first place, so that doesn't absolve them. But at least they bought back the cards they sold me that had been publicly identified as trimmed or altered.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by molenick

I am trying to complete a high grade Diamond Stars set. I do my best to avoid cards that have been "outed" on the Blowout board or that look trimmed to my eye, and I only buy from reputable auction houses. But at this point, it is possible probable that I have some trimmed cards. I don't have the heart to research every one and it makes me wary of buying any more cards in higher condition.

After Blowout started posting before/after photos of trimmed cards, I was contacted by PWCC and they offered to buy back the cards they sold me that were listed (I got an email from them about each card). I can't remember, but this was maybe two or three Leafs in total. I also found an E card that was listed and they bought that back as well. I am guessing this was in 2019 or 2020. I have not had this happen with other sellers. Of course, PWCC was the one selling the trimmed cards in the first place, so that doesn't absolve them. But at least they bought back the cards they sold me that had been publicly identified as trimmed or altered.

Good thing the "Hobby Clowns" (according to the Snowman here) brought needed awareness to this fraud, or you never would have been refunded.

Aside from those "Hobby Clowns", the only other reason you got refunded was that another Board Member here (who legally represented PWCC while the FBI was investigating them) advised Brent to offer full refunds on all the altered cards that were exposed. He probably kept Brent out of jail in doing so.

The "Hobby Clowns" put in countless hours (with no pay and no benefit to themselves) to expose the blatant fraud, and still probably caught less than 5% of the doctored cards out there. The hundreds of hours and level of detail they had to dig into was overwhelming. So to see them demeaned in a thread like this is misguided and imbecilic.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

While I appreciate the thought, as it is something that obviously concerns me too, the idea that the card doctors are worthy of defense and those who are trying to expose them are described as hobby clowns is somewhat interesting.

Given how I was educated in the hobby, I find the increasing indifference of so many people, particularly the next generation, shocking. And then even beyond that to hear the defenders -- oh it's not their job, so it's fine if they enable the card doctors. I am sure it's realistic, but still.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

While I appreciate the thought, as it is something that obviously concerns me too, the idea that the card doctors are worthy of defense and those who are trying to expose them are described as hobby clowns is somewhat interesting.

I'm not referring to the BODA people as hobby clowns. I'm referring to the guys on youtube and social media whose entire existence is just to slander people left and right and $#!+ on the hobby every day.