Most undervalued HOFers

esehombre · #1 10-24-2024, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Yeah, it's definitely wonky. Ernie Banks is another example. The rookie card is pricey, but beyond that most stuff even in EX graded shape won't bust many budgets. To me he fits the universally loved / popular for a team checkbox in the same way that Brooks does for Baltimore.

BTW, finally picked up a '57 Topps Brooks Robinson earlier this year. Love it!

Not so sure about Banks - Kaline compares favorably to him but most of his cards are considerably cheaper

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #2 10-24-2024, 10:56 AM

Historically, Cubs fans have always shown more love with their wallets than Tigers fans, so that could have a bit to do with it.

Balticfox · #3 10-24-2024, 11:35 AM

To use the words "Baseball cards" and undervalued" together is an oxymoron anyway. I mean who would have anticipated that these cheap pieces of cardboard inserted as a premium to sell cigars and cigarettes, bread, bubble gum, breakfast cereal, etc. would some day fetch not just pouches but bags of silver (and even gold!) coins? Who would have predicted that such widespread daftness would take hold among baby boomers?

So let's turn the question around. Limiting ourselves to post-WWII cards since just about all of these are still in plentiful supply, which players are the most grotesquely overpriced? Should any names be added to those of Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron? Sandy Koufax maybe?

Peter_Spaeth · #4 10-24-2024, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

To use the words "Baseball cards" and undervalued" together is an oxymoron. I mean who would have anticipated that these cheap pieces of cardboard inserted as a premium to sell cigars and cigarettes, bread, bubble gum, breakfast cereal, etc. would some day fetch not just pouches but bags of silver (and even gold!) coins? Who would have predicted that such widespread daftness would take hold among baby boomers?

So let's turn the question around. Limiting ourselves to post-WWII cards since just about all of these are still in plentiful supply, which players are the most grotesquely overpriced? Should any names be added to those of Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron? Sandy Koufax maybe?

Clemente.

At least in terms of his numbers. Bill James, as of 20 years ago, ranked him only 70th or so, whereas everyone else has him significantly higher. We have had this discussion before and I suppose we may have it again. Only 240 HR, and he wasn't much of a HR hitter on the road either, so I think Forbes Field only gets one so far in downplaying his lack of HR power. Yes, incredible arm, but James makes a cogent argument that that whole thing is not as important overall as some make it out to be. There was a very interesting (and of course contentious) discussion about Clemente and Kaline being roughly equal not that long ago here.

rats60 · #5 10-24-2024, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Only 240 HR, and he wasn't much of a HR hitter on the road either, so I think Forbes Field only gets one so far in downplaying his lack of HR power.

Home park makes a huge difference. From 1955-69 when Clemente played in Forbes, there were an average of 86 HR per season hit. Compare that to Hank Aaron's home field advantage. From 1966-68 there were an average of 151 HR per season hit in the "Launching Pad." After the 1968 season, the Braves moved the fences in to help Aaron hit more HRs. From 1969-73, that number jumped to 187 per season. 1n 1974 with Aaron at 713 HRs, the Braves moved the fences back.

If Aaron hadn't played in Atlanta, he would be fifth all time in home runs and his cards would be priced similar to Frank Robinson's. Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron are the most overpriced post-war vintage players.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 10-24-2024, 02:54 PM

Just looking at 1969, Hank hit more home runs on the road than at home.

John1941 · #7 10-24-2024, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

Home park makes a huge difference. From 1955-69 when Clemente played in Forbes, there were an average of 86 HR per season hit. Compare that to Hank Aaron's home field advantage. From 1966-68 there were an average of 151 HR per season hit in the "Launching Pad." After the 1968 season, the Braves moved the fences in to help Aaron hit more HRs. From 1969-73, that number jumped to 187 per season. 1n 1974 with Aaron at 713 HRs, the Braves moved the fences back.

If Aaron hadn't played in Atlanta, he would be fifth all time in home runs and his cards would be priced similar to Frank Robinson's. Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron are the most overpriced post-war vintage players.

For his career, Aaron hit 385 homers at home and 370 on the road. 740 home runs would not make you 5th all-time.

timn1 · #8 10-25-2024, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1941

For his career, Aaron hit 385 homers at home and 370 on the road. 740 home runs would not make you 5th all-time.

Sure, park effects are significant at times but the idea that Aaron is overrated is just nuts to me.

I Think If anything Aaron is way undervalued. One of the ten greatest players of all time, and I would argue one of the top five most important of all time.

Brent G. · #9 10-24-2024, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

To use the words "Baseball cards" and undervalued" together is an oxymoron anyway. I mean who would have anticipated that these cheap pieces of cardboard inserted as a premium to sell cigars and cigarettes, bread, bubble gum, breakfast cereal, etc. would some day fetch not just pouches but bags of silver (and even gold!) coins? Who would have predicted that such widespread daftness would take hold among baby boomers?

So let's turn the question around. Limiting ourselves to post-WWII cards since just about all of these are still in plentiful supply, which players are the most grotesquely overpriced? Should any names be added to those of Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron? Sandy Koufax maybe?

I guess to me -- what started this thread -- is Mantle rules that top spot. But, like anything, he's worth whatever someone is willing to pay ... and apparently, that's a lot.

jchcollins · #10 10-24-2024, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esehombre

Not so sure about Banks - Kaline compares favorably to him but most of his cards are considerably cheaper

That's true; Kaline is even cheaper. My point was that if someone wants a 1959 Topps Ernie Banks in nice shape, most of the time it's not going to break the bank. He doesn't have the pull of Aaron, Clemente, Mays or Koufax in that set.

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