Goldin Auction - Honus Wagner �Rookie Card�

benjulmag · #1 11-02-2024, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

How reserves may be used is a function of state law. Auctioneers located in states with less regulation are freer to do more hidden manipulation of an auction. You don't care for a particular auctioneer's policy, bitch to the state legislature.

All of the machinations have one goal: to generate 'action'. If the auction started at the reserve, there would be less action. The more bidders in an auction on an item, the more buzz it gets, the more likely others are to bid on the item. FOMO.

Point well taken. These practices are permitted because state and local legislatures permit them. NYC has gone even further off the deep end -- https://www.huntonak.com/hunton-reta...rning-auctions

I don't know if it is because of increased state and local tax revenue these legislatures feel they will generate, or the prestige of attracting AHs to their venues, or to threats by AHs to leave venues unless certain rules are enacted, or a combination of the above, but it sickens me these practices are allowed. It is nothing less than legalized shill bidding, rationalized under the pretext that as long as the AH discloses to you (in the fine print) that they are trying to defraud you, the governing jurisdiction will not treat it as fraud even when the AH pulls it off.

I'd love to see the day some defendant in a civil suit brought against him/her for fraud raises the defense that since the plaintiff knew the defendant had a reputation as a fraudster, the plaintiff was put on notice shenanigans would take place and thereby as a matter of law no fraud could have occurred.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #2 11-02-2024, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

NYC has gone even further off the deep end -- https://www.huntonak.com/hunton-reta...rning-auctions

Yikes

oldjudge · #3 11-02-2024, 01:16 PM

Hi Corey! The easy solution is that if people find these terms egregious they can choose not to bid in these auctions until the terms are changed. Voting with your feet may work better than waiting for legislative changes. Do I think this will happen on any meaningful scale—no.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 11-02-2024, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Hi Corey! The easy solution is that if people find these terms egregious they can choose not to bid in these auctions until the terms are changed. Voting with your feet may work better than waiting for legislative changes. Do I think this will happen on any meaningful scale�no.

You're right. People's feet are going to go where the "stuff" is, just how it is.

benjulmag · #5 11-02-2024, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Hi Corey! The easy solution is that if people find these terms egregious they can choose not to bid in these auctions until the terms are changed. Voting with your feet may work better than waiting for legislative changes. Do I think this will happen on any meaningful scale�no.

As we are learning from this thread, many people do not and will not know what is taking place. So yes, I can vote with my feet, and in fact that is what I do. But how can a person do that if he/she doesn't know what is going on? Isn't that what legislatures are supposed to do -- prohibit shady practices that the average Joe would otherwise not realize are taking place and therefore not take the proper precautions to protect themselves?

Republicaninmass · #6 11-02-2024, 02:16 PM

After the blatant shenanigans with the champs hats jackie card...i have a hard time even with REA. Consigned by brother. Bought by brother...or something like that to make it "legit". Both are still able to bid and consign to REA I'd imagine, despite rock solid evidence.

Lobo Aullando · #7 11-02-2024, 01:31 PM

At the simplest level, if there's a scenario where

A buyer would pay up to $150,
The seller wants at least $100, and
No other potential buyer would bid above $50

... then how is the transaction that the first two parties want to take place actually going to happen? (I'm leaving out max auto-bidding and other fancy stuff, just focusing on the base concept.)

Lots of different hairs getting split in this thread, but I'm not seeing a net loss, regardless of how the reserve gets hit. The auction house is also supposed to get the most for the consigner, so if the extra motion draws a few more fish � I know, I know, or whales, which are mammals � then they're fulfilling that.

Exhibitman · #8 11-03-2024, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Point well taken. These practices are permitted because state and local legislatures permit them. NYC has gone even further off the deep end -- https://www.huntonak.com/hunton-reta...rning-auctions

Race to the bottom stuff...

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