This Probably Won't Go Anywhere, But...

NonSportDaniel · #1 12-03-2024, 10:38 AM

Grading is a way to make someone rich...you. It has been proven time and again that graded cards sell for more than raw. There's no point in fighting that whether or not you agree with it.

Do what you want and let others do what they want. Easy peasy.

ocjack · #2 12-03-2024, 10:53 AM

I believe what he is saying is that he will price his cards at what he believes the graded value would be based upon his own evaluation of condition. Hence, obtaining the "graded" price without the cost of grading. And that buyers are welcome to pay his price or not. He doesn't give a "f".

And fwiw, I agree with him.

Chris-Counts · #3 12-03-2024, 11:10 AM

I agree with everything you said, James. There are countless thousands of undergraded, overgraded and altered cards sitting in slabs. Trusting graders is like trusting one of the three-letter news channels or Google's fact-checker to deliver objective news.

Balticfox · #4 12-03-2024, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocjack

I believe what he is saying is that he will price his cards at what he believes the graded value would be based upon his own evaluation of condition. Hence, obtaining the "graded" price without the cost of grading. And that buyers are welcome to pay his price or not. He doesn't give a "f".

And fwiw, I agree with him.

So do I!

But neither am I selling any of the cards in my collection. Nor will I be in the foreseeable future.

Leon · #5 12-03-2024, 01:26 PM

From an original collection.

It's a shame but if, and when, I sell these they will need to be put in slabs. The answer is always the same, money.

Snapolit1 · #6 12-03-2024, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

From an original collection.

It's a shame but if, and when, I sell these they will need to be put in slabs. The answer is always the same, money.

Based on the information we have seen to date, unfortunately we can't take them with us.......

ullmandds · #7 12-03-2024, 04:37 PM

Exactly...while I'm not a fan at all of TPG'ing...I will not live forever...and even if I did...there's a high likelihood I will be selling my cards before I die...I have noone to leave them to.

This is why grading is important to me...so my cards are liquid/set up to receive maximum return when I decide to sell.

Balticfox · #8 12-03-2024, 05:26 PM

What incidentally is the cost of grading/slabbing a NM common from 1959 or 1960?

Snapolit1 · #9 12-03-2024, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocjack

I believe what he is saying is that he will price his cards at what he believes the graded value would be based upon his own evaluation of condition. Hence, obtaining the "graded" price without the cost of grading. And that buyers are welcome to pay his price or not. He doesn't give a "f".

And fwiw, I agree with him.

What happens when you die and the cards fall into the hands of people who aren't well-versed in value of baseball cards? Do you trust people in the hobby to pay your survivors fair market value for a raw card? I don't.

BRoberts · #10 12-03-2024, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonSportDaniel

Do what you want and let others do what they want. Easy peasy.

Thank you!

Peter_Spaeth · #11 12-03-2024, 11:06 AM

...

Al C.risafulli · #12 12-03-2024, 11:18 AM

Once in a while I'll try and articulate this point, and I'm never quite sure if I'm getting it across the way I want. But I keep trying.

I view things like registry competition, protection from damage, etc. as byproducts (whether good or bad) of the real advantage that grading provides, which is the ability to buy online with some degree of confidence in what you're getting. For those of us who've been in the hobby for a while, of COURSE we know our cards better than anyone, and of COURSE the plastic holder prevents people from really getting to know an issue (i.e. paper stock, printing, etc).

Not long ago, our ability to collect was driven by the cards we had access to, either in our own geographic areas (via shows, trading groups, friends, etc) or folks that advertised in hobby publications. The internet gave us access to an entire universe of cards! Building a complete 1933 Goudey set once was a pursuit that might take a person his entire life. With the internet, and enough money, you could do it in a week!

The problem with this, of course, is that it could be more trouble than it's worth to buy online if all the cards were ungraded. One man's VG/EX is another man's EX/MT. I still remember buying a 1949 Bowman Johnny Vander Meer as a kid from a dealer that called the card MINT. I owned it for a while, and then tried to include it in a trade it back to him, and he told me it was VG at best.

Having that third party evaluation isn't going to be 100% accurate 100% of the time, but if you're buying online, sight unseen or through a scan, having a slab that says "this card is in near mint condition" can give you a reasonable amount of confidence in what is going to arrive in the mail.

Yes, grading has created an entire group of problems that didn't exist in the hobby beforehand, but at its core, I truly believe that grading has done far more good than bad, by allowing us to trust technology and grow our collections.

-Al

Yoda · #13 12-03-2024, 12:44 PM

?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

...

Peter, you wouldn't have a RC of Sancho Panza available by any chance?

Peter_Spaeth · #14 12-03-2024, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

?

Peter, you wouldn't have a RC of Sancho Panza available by any chance?

Very tough short print, on my grail list.

jchcollins · #15 12-03-2024, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_spaeth

...

LOL Don Q.

BioCRN · #16 12-03-2024, 11:15 AM

Like it or not, for many people spending more than $20-$100 on a card they care more about PSA/SGC/etc opinion on a specific card moreso than almost any dealer or collector.

If this issue needed to be dealt with by the hobby, it should have been done 20+ years ago. Barring some extremely significant scandal it's probably not going anywhere...and we're not talking about a scattering of over-grading or missed alterations of cards.

At this point it's not only ingrained, but it's rudimentary entry-level collector stuff. The amount of new/novice collectors asking "Should I get this graded?" is extremely common.

Anyone can choose to make their own stand, but the hobby is strongly standing on the ground of grading services having a voice in the value of cardboard.

Peter_Spaeth · #17 12-03-2024, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Like it or not, for many people spending more than $20-$100 on a card they care more about PSA/SGC/etc opinion on a specific card moreso than almost any dealer or collector.

If this issue needed to be dealt with by the hobby, it should have been done 20+ years ago. Barring some extremely significant scandal it's probably not going anywhere...and we're not talking about a scattering of over-grading or missed alterations of cards.

At this point it's not only ingrained, but it's rudimentary entry-level collector stuff. The amount of new/novice collectors asking "Should I get this graded?" is extremely common.

Anyone can choose to make their own stand, but the hobby is strongly standing on the ground of grading services having a voice in the value of cardboard.

We've already had the major scandal. Nothing changed.

Seven · #18 12-03-2024, 11:24 AM

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

ullmandds · #19 12-03-2024, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

agree...this is my #1 gripe with TPG.

mq711 · #20 12-06-2024, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

agree...this is my #1 gripe with TPG.

I would hope they put more of an effort into grading and authenticating a card worth thousands than they do one worth less than a hundred; though I have no idea if the use more resources for this or not.

Peter_Spaeth · #21 12-03-2024, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

You know the answer.

Seven · #22 12-03-2024, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You know the answer.

Of course, Peter. I think we all do. It just doesn't sit right with me. I know the rose tinted nostalgia glasses only highlight the good and not the bad, but the Hobby was in a significantly better place in terms of being just a hobby, years ago.

butchie_t · #23 12-03-2024, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

Getting a loan from a loan shark is more reasonable than having to cough up the kind of coin for grading a 52 Mantle. That is freaking highway robbery.

Butch Turner

OhioLawyerF5 · #24 12-03-2024, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

Does an art restorer charge more to restore the Mona Lisa than some random painting in your living room? It's not about the exact action they are performing, it's that they are being entrusted with the possession and care of a very valuable item and have to take that in consideration in pricing. Potential liability is a part of a business's overhead. And all overhead is baked into the pricing structure. The only other way would be to raise grading costs for every card and spread the cost out. But that would be too big a pill for their average consumer to swallow, so they won't do it. Their bread and butter is grading a million base cards a month, not 5 52 Mantles.

Seven · #25 12-03-2024, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Does an art restorer charge more to restore the Mona Lisa than some random painting in your living room? It's not about the exact action they are performing, it's that they are being entrusted with the possession and care of a very valuable item and have to take that in consideration in pricing. Potential liability is a part of a business's overhead. And all overhead is baked into the pricing structure. The only other way would be to raise grading costs for every card and spread the cost out. But that would be too big a pill for their average consumer to swallow, so they won't do it. Their bread and butter is grading a million base cards a month, not 5 52 Mantles.

In my opinion this comparison should be like comparing apples to oranges. Our hobby should not reflect what goes on the art world. But that's neither here nor there. I know Why it costs more, I'm saying it shouldn't, it's not fair to the average collector.

Gorditadogg · #26 12-03-2024, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Does an art restorer charge more to restore the Mona Lisa than some random painting in your living room? It's not about the exact action they are performing, it's that they are being entrusted with the possession and care of a very valuable item and have to take that in consideration in pricing. Potential liability is a part of a business's overhead. And all overhead is baked into the pricing structure. The only other way would be to raise grading costs for every card and spread the cost out. But that would be too big a pill for their average consumer to swallow, so they won't do it. Their bread and butter is grading a million base cards a month, not 5 52 Mantles.

I would also hope the person cleaning your random living room painting is not the same guy working on the Mona Lisa.

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