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  #1  
Old 12-18-2024, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
That said, the 1949 issue date for the "1948 Leaf" baseball cards is hardly news in our circles.
Right, because Ted Zanidakis (rest in peace) used to complain about it all the time on here. However, this is different because New York Times is writing about it!

I personally think that the 49' Bowman baseball cards are a great buy right now. The gap between both sets (Bowman and Leaf) will start to close over the years.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2024, 03:59 PM
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Other than Musial, whose 48B would now be his only RC, and Paige, whose 49B would now take on RC status, what RC designations would this affect? I concur it should not affect Jackie because the BB is his true RC. There are already all sorts of 49B that are RCs of players who are not in Leaf -- Hodges, Ashburn, Wynn, Roberts, Lemon, Snider, Kell, Campanella.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-18-2024 at 04:01 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2024, 04:55 PM
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I think even Musial depends on whether you consider his Montiel card his true rookie or not. It predates all 1948 issues too.
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2024, 04:58 PM
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I think even Musial depends on whether you consider his Montiel card his true rookie or not. It predates all 1948 issues too.
He's also in 1947 Homogenized BB, but I don't think most people would go there either.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-18-2024 at 04:58 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2024, 05:00 PM
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I think even Musial depends on whether you consider his Montiel card his true rookie or not. It predates all 1948 issues too.
Agree. If you consider Jackie's true rookie to be the 47BB, then logically the Montiel must be Musial's rookie card (or at least supersedes the 48B for rookie card status).
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2024, 05:03 PM
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Agree. If you consider Jackie's true rookie to be the 47BB, then logically the Montiel must be Musial's rookie card (or at least supersedes the 48B for rookie card status).
Logically we could distinguish a US baseball issue from a Cuban multisport issue, no?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-18-2024 at 05:05 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2024, 05:29 PM
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Usually I would agree but the Montiel is a tough one. Musial appears in his Cardinals uniform and his career up to date with the Cardinals is featured in his bio on the back. The issue is also referred to as 1946-47 which would I think challenge any other issue.
Last edited by packs; 12-18-2024 at 05:30 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2024, 05:36 PM
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Usually I would agree but the Montiel is a tough one. Musial appears in his Cardinals uniform and his career up to date with the Cardinals is featured in his bio on the back. The issue is also referred to as 1946-47 which would I think challenge any other issue.
When did he wear #19?
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2024, 12:47 PM
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I think even Musial depends on whether you consider his Montiel card his true rookie or not. It predates all 1948 issues too.
Certainly it predates the others, but doesn't something have to be a card to be a rookie card? The Montiels are just paperstock cutouts that otherwise look like baseball cards.
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Old 12-19-2024, 12:56 PM
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So what baseball card did Ken Keltner show to the bartender?

December 24 Wisconsin newspaper
1948 Ken Keltner Baseball card The_Post_Crescent_1948_12_24_21.jpg
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2024, 01:29 PM
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Certainly it predates the others, but doesn't something have to be a card to be a rookie card? The Montiels are just paperstock cutouts that otherwise look like baseball cards.
I’ve never heard of anyone refer to the Montiel Desportes set as being hand cut. They have received number grades for as long as I’ve been familiar with them.
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2024, 01:39 PM
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I’ve never heard of anyone refer to the Montiel Desportes set as being hand cut. They have received number grades for as long as I’ve been familiar with them.
I don't know if they were cut by hand or not. My point was merely that they aren't cards.
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2024, 01:52 PM
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I don't know if they were cut by hand or not. My point was merely that they aren't cards.
Then what are they? Cards can be made of a material other than standard Topps cardboard and be a card.
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2024, 01:52 PM
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I don't know if they were cut by hand or not. My point was merely that they aren't cards.
Then what are they? Cards can be made of a material other than standard Topps cardboard and be a card.
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2024, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Other than Musial, whose 48B would now be his only RC, and Paige, whose 49B would now take on RC status, what RC designations would this affect? I concur it should not affect Jackie because the BB is his true RC. There are already all sorts of 49B that are RCs of players who are not in Leaf -- Hodges, Ashburn, Wynn, Roberts, Lemon, Snider, Kell, Campanella.
1949 Leaf Spahn and Kiner are not rookie cards. PSA designates players with both 49 Leaf and Bowman as having two rookie cards, so no change there.
Last edited by rats60; 12-19-2024 at 06:24 AM.
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2024, 06:55 AM
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1949 Leaf Spahn and Kiner are not rookie cards.
Many people will point to 1948 Bowman for both of them...some will point to 1947 Tip-Top Bread for both of them...

Grover C Alexander...his RC depends on whether you count supplements, leathers, silks, transfers/stamps, or table game cards that came before his 1914 Cracker Jack card many say is his RC.
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  #17  
Old 12-19-2024, 01:00 PM
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Many people will point to 1948 Bowman for both of them...some will point to 1947 Tip-Top Bread for both of them...

Grover C Alexander...his RC depends on whether you count supplements, leathers, silks, transfers/stamps, or table game cards that came before his 1914 Cracker Jack card many say is his RC.
I was of the notion for a long time that Alexander's rookie card, being issued in 1914, but now have to go with the '14 CJ CJ, as that seems to be the common belief. Shame there aren't more cards of 'Ole Pete', given his significance to the game.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2024, 01:01 PM
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Sorry, meant to reference the T222 Fatima card.
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  #19  
Old 12-19-2024, 01:28 PM
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I don't like the 47' Bond Bread set because they are all Jackies! Are they all rookie cards? Furthermore, imagine if Mantle had thirteen different cards in the 52' Topps set!! Would they be sought-after and worth so much ?? Probably not, because having that many cards would just water down the values.

We also have to look at brand loyality here. People love Nike, Adidas, Reebok, etc. and it's no different with sports cards. People want Leaf, Bowman, Topps, O-Pee-Chee, Upper Deck, etc. How many fans are there of Bond Bread ?? What else did they make other than that Jackie set ??
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2024, 01:43 PM
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Sorry, meant to reference the T222 Fatima card.
Of course the M101-2 is even earlier, but I prefer the Fatima.
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  #21  
Old 12-20-2024, 10:44 PM
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However, this is different because New York Times is writing about it!
The New York Times? Big deal. Were it the Wall Street Journal writing about it, I might then pay attention.

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