Let’s rehash the Bond Bread controversy.

[Johnphotoman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

"We know the Exhibit Supply Co., printed up the 1947 Bond Bread Exhibits, which has many of the same images that Bond Bread used."

We do? I've never seen any evidence of that. The physical characteristics of the cards do not match ESCO products. Please elaborate.

Exhibitman- very nice Exhibit cards. I think there is some confusion by what I said. I never thought that the Exhibit cards were Bond Bread. I did not mean to imply that Exhibit cards were the same as the Bond Bread cards. What I said was: "Let’s nor forget that Bond Bread did not manufacture or print their own cards. They had to get permission to use the images on the cards. The company or people who had the images, probably licensed out those images to many different people and organizations to use.

It could be that Aarco playing card company had the rights to the images (license) and is the printing Co. that printed up all the many varieties of cards we have. But that is just a theory. We know the Exhibit Supply Co., printed up the 1947 Bond Bread Exhibits, which has many of the same images that Bond Bread used."

I only used the term (1947 Bond Bread Exhibits), because that is how they are identified. The point that I was trying to make ... is that Aarco playing card company printed the Bond Bread cards, and ESCO printed the Exhibit cards, which are identified as 1947 Bond Bread Exhibits. I am sorry If I imply that Bond Bread cards and Exhibit cards were the same.

My question goes back to my point... does this mean the Exhibit cards shown here are from ESCO? And Does this imply - that they printed the Exhibit cards, classified as 1947 Bond Bread Exhibit? Can you clarify? Thanks John.

[Johnphotoman]

butchie t- In post #2 through #15 in this thread, we were having a conversation on a set of cards you purchased back in May of 1990 from the Baseball Card Society.

Question: In the original thread posted by rdwyer-post 200, he posted a letter from the Baseball card society. Do you remember that letter and is it the same letter you posted in this thread #15?

Question: Do you remember Ted Z's response to that letter?

I quoted Ted Z's response and evaluation of that letter in the original thread in post #12 of this thread. I quoted Ted Z exactly word for word.
For some reason I can not find that post by Ted Z, but this is what he said about that letter.

"This document appears to be the evidence regarding the source of the RE-printed "1947 Bond Bread" cards which David Festberg discovered in a NJ warehouse in the 1980's. It is not dated, however in its text it implies a circa 1980's date, which does coincide with Festberg's find. Plus, the fact that 24 cards are being advertised. The original BOND BREAD set of cards consists of 48 cards.

When I first saw these cards in the early 1990's at the Philly Show, I purchased several of them. When I got home, I compared them to my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards, which I collected in my youth. And, it was very obvious, that these were inferior reproductions." TED Z

I read the letters, and nowhere does it say anything like Ted Z said!

Question: Am I wrong or am I missing something here? And is it because of what Ted Z said about that letter: you said in post #412- “Here is my Jackie Robinson, front and back for comparison. I purchased this along with the other 23 way back in May of 1990 from the Baseball Card Society. What I know up to now, it is part of the Festberg find.”

butchie t, I believe you have a different set of cards, then the ones we see all the time, and they are definitely not from the Festberg find, more to come on this, I will explain. For now I await your answers. Thanks John

[Johnphotoman]

Original post 384: We can use this as a guide.

Quote: UK Card Guy: “I recently picked up a lot of 7 "1947 Bond Bread cards" fairly cheaply. (I also got a couple of 1948 Kelloggs Pep cards with the lot). Based on this thread, I think only my Sheldon Jones is a true Bond Bread with the others being Sports Star Subjects

From what I can tell from the images; all the cards are from the Festberg discovered in a NJ warehouse in the 1980's. The backs look like they are Ivory in color, to me, if they are white then yes they are from the Sports Star Subject. All but the Sheldon Jones card, that is, we don’t have a good image of the back, but it could be a Sports star Subject card, it does look white, but if it has a cream white back, it would be a Bond Bread insert card. Sheldon Jones card is the fourth card with round corners. John

[butchie_t]

butchie t- In post #2 through #15 in this thread, we were having a conversation on a set of cards you purchased back in May of 1990 from the Baseball Card Society.

Question: In the original thread posted by rdwyer-post 200, he posted a letter from the Baseball card society. Do you remember that letter and is it the same letter you posted in this thread #15?

I remember that letter and it is the same on I have and posted later in that thread.
https://net54baseball.com/showpost.p...&postcount=377

I posted the letters that I received from BCS and that was one of the 2 letters regarding the set.

I can tell you for a fact that I received this letter in the early 90's while I was a member of BCS and stationed overseas. As you can see by the 3 paged letter, I had made my purchase of the set 1 May 90. I still have the invoice from that purchase as well.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...1&postcount=15

Question: Do you remember Ted Z's response to that letter?
Going through the thread, Ted never really commented directly about that letter from what I could see. I did phrase searches using the below information, never found any matches.

I quoted Ted Z's response and evaluation of that letter in the original thread in post #12 of this thread. I quoted Ted Z exactly word for word.
For some reason I can not find that post by Ted Z, but this is what he said about that letter.

"This document appears to be the evidence regarding the source of the RE-printed "1947 Bond Bread" cards which David Festberg discovered in a NJ warehouse in the 1980's. It is not dated, however in its text it implies a circa 1980's date, which does coincide with Festberg's find. Plus, the fact that 24 cards are being advertised. The original BOND BREAD set of cards consists of 48 cards.

When I first saw these cards in the early 1990's at the Philly Show, I purchased several of them. When I got home, I compared them to my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards, which I collected in my youth. And, it was very obvious, that these were inferior reproductions." TED Z

I read the letters, and nowhere does it say anything like Ted Z said!

Question: Am I wrong or am I missing something here? And is it because of what Ted Z said about that letter: you said in post #412- “Here is my Jackie Robinson, front and back for comparison. I purchased this along with the other 23 way back in May of 1990 from the Baseball Card Society. What I know up to now, it is part of the Festberg find.”

Based strictly on the information contained within that thread, and my limited knowledge of the cards, I certainly made the assumption that they were from the Festberg find. I had no reason to believe otherwise.

butchie t, I believe you have a different set of cards, then the ones we see all the time, and they are definitely not from the Festberg find, more to come on this, I will explain. For now I await your answers. Thanks John[/QUOTE]

John, maybe they are not from the Festberg find. I know the cards backs that I have do not match the Festberg examples that have been posted subsequently. And even abctoo had several interactions with Ted as well. I believe abctoo is still active on this site and am somewhat curious as to him not weighing in on this thread.

Anyway, that is what I have for now.

B.T.

[Johnphotoman]

butchie t, thank you. I am on the track of your cards, I don't know if we can say 100% what they are, but we can say 98% what they are not. Still compiling the evidence we have to date. I hope to be able to give clear answers to many of the questions we have about your cards and the others.

We do need more people to post. I, too, am curious as to why people are not weighing in on this thread. Maybe because it seems that I am criticizing Ted Z. But I am very thankful for Ted Z, and admire the work he has done. I just want to get to the bottom of this Bond Bread thing.

I know I said - I believe Ted Z had an agenda, that is just my opinion, I do not want to paint Ted Z in a bad light, thanks to him, we can have this conversation but with the good comes the bad.

I formed my opinion of Ted Z having an agenda after combing through the old thread. The letter from the Baseball Card Society and Ted Z's response and evaluation of that letter is what had me come to the conclusion Ted Z had an agenda

I quoted Ted Z exactly word for word. I did not change or add anything to Ted Z comments. I know I copy his comments in response to the Baseball Card Society letter. Since I had posted those comments- I can not find them! The only reasons I can think of are: it was in another thread, or someone removed them. I do not know enough on how the thread actually works to say if this could happen. John

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Johnphotoman

butchie t, thank you. I am on the track of your cards, I don't know if we can say 100% what they are, but we can say 98% what they are not. Still compiling the evidence we have to date. I hope to be able to give clear answers to many of the questions we have about your cards and the others.

We do need more people to post. I, too, am curious as to why people are not weighing in on this thread. Maybe because it seems that I am criticizing Ted Z. But I am very thankful for Ted Z, and admire the work he has done. I just want to get to the bottom of this Bond Bread thing.

I know I said - I believe Ted Z had an agenda, that is just my opinion, I do not want to paint Ted Z in a bad light, thanks to him, we can have this conversation but with the good comes the bad.

I formed my opinion of Ted Z having an agenda after combing through the old thread. The letter from the Baseball Card Society and Ted Z's response and evaluation of that letter is what had me come to the conclusion Ted Z had an agenda

I quoted Ted Z exactly word for word. I did not change or add anything to Ted Z comments. I know I copy his comments in response to the Baseball Card Society letter. Since I had posted those comments- I can not find them! The only reasons I can think of are: it was in another thread, or someone removed them. I do not know enough on how the thread actually works to say if this could happen. John

John, what you're looking for is in this thread https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...light=Document

[butchie_t]

I am confident Leon is not the kind of person that would delete a thread or a post in a thread. It is still out there somewhere.

That entire string was archived when Leon swapped databases or platforms, not sure which. But, it is in its entirety from what I can see.

And I know that you are not inferring in your comment that he did it, just that you cannot find it.

Regards,

B.T.


Great find Pat!!

I just searched the archived thread and looked nowhere else.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...light=Document