SUBJECT: BEWARE Steve Verkman, Keith Vari, Leland’s, Clean Sweep & Paragon auctions

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Last line on the contract appears to state 60/40 split on authentication which likely means the same ratio for that expense as on the final take. At least, that is how I interpreted that line.

I doubt very seriously the AH is covering all of the authentication fees.

Would the prior line, stating no additional fees, contradict (or negate) that final line?

Also, on that last line, who pays the 60% and who pays the 40% isn't specified. In other places, the consignor GETS the 60%. Does that final line imply the consignor gets, or pays, the 60%?

Would that ambiguity create a legal loophole?

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Would the prior line, stating no additional fees, contradict (or negate) that final line?

Also, on that last line, who pays the 60% and who pays the 40% isn't specified. In other places, the consignor GETS the 60%. Does that final line imply the consignor gets, or pays, the 60%?

Would that ambiguity create a legal loophole?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I know lawyers look for detailed contracts but these are very basic. There is a clause somewhere in there that states your signature makes it a binding contract based on the terms agreed to or some statement like that.

I believe the consignor pays 60% of the authentication fees based on the way it is written but that is a guess on my part.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I know lawyers look for detailed contracts but these are very basic. There is a clause somewhere in there that states your signature makes it a binding contract based on the terms agreed to or some statement like that.

I believe the consignor pays 60% of the authentication fees based on the way it is written but that is a guess on my part.

You can still get out of a binding contract and that's what a consignment agreement is.

[oldjudge]

I think Verkman needs to step up and explain how he views this transaction.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I think Verkman needs to step up and explain how he views this transaction.

I am sure he probably thinks a few things you should do too, Jay. I don't think Steve owes anyone an explanation more than I quoted him.

From what I have read, seen, and know, I don't think it's right to keep this thread on the front page to the detriment of the auction house, who has an auction closing soon. It doesn't look like they did anything wrong to me. Contracts can always be negotiated. I have done good and bad deals. The consignor didn't get a bad deal here, from what has been shown. But it can be talked about ad nauseam in this other section.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am sure he probably thinks a few things you should do too, Jay. I don't think Steve owes anyone an explanation more than I quoted him.

From what I have read, seen, and know, I don't think it's right to keep this thread on the front page to the detriment of the auction house, who has an auction closing soon. It doesn't look like they did anything wrong to me. Contracts can always be negotiated. I have done good and bad deals. The consignor didn't get a bad deal here, from what has been shown. But it can be talked about ad nauseam in this other section.

Is this a new policy? Feel like I have seen threads that could have been detrimental to an auction house during a live auction on the main board plenty of times.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Is this a new policy? Feel like I have seen threads that could have been detrimental to an auction house during a live auction on the main board plenty of times.

You know, the poster wasn't even a member on this board. It was his first post. Most of us are very sympathetic to anyone's complaints on here, whether it's about evil Ebay, corrupt FedEx or big uncaring auction houses.

Usually you get some insight behind the posts. If it's James, he's just letting off steam, if it's Yoda, he probably forgot his meds. But this is some random newbie poster looking to flame some well known AHs.

I don't see where he has any rights to broadcast on our forum. The thread is entertaining to me, but I am surprised that Leon allowed it in the first place.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Snapolit1]

Some obvious stupid negligence to gripe about is one thing, but not sure this is the best forum to trot out one side of a full blown breach of contract dispute.

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

You know, the poster wasn't even a member on this board. It was his first post. Most of us are very sympathetic to anyone's complaints on here, whether it's about evil Ebay, corrupt FedEx or big uncaring auction houses.

Usually you get some insight behind the posts. If it's James, he's just letting off steam, if it's Yoda, he probably forgot his meds. But this is some random newbie poster looking to flame some well known AHs.

I don't see where he has any rights to broadcast on our forum. The thread is entertaining to me, but I am surprised that Leon allowed it in the first place.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

You know, the poster wasn't even a member on this board. It was his first post. Most of us are very sympathetic to anyone's complaints on here, whether it's about evil Ebay, corrupt FedEx or big uncaring auction houses.

Usually you get some insight behind the posts. If it's James, he's just letting off steam, if it's Yoda, he probably forgot his meds. But this is some random newbie poster looking to flame some well known AHs.

I don't see where he has any rights to broadcast on our forum. The thread is entertaining to me, but I am surprised that Leon allowed it in the first place.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

I wonder if the person who coached or told the OP to post this will show his face?

I have known Steve Verkman for over 35 years. I have 1000s of deals with him. I have never had any issues. He’s always been honest and up front in regard to terms.

If I had two truck loads of mediocre stuff and a few decent items I would be happy with a 15k advance and allow someone else to hustle all the lower end stuff for me at the agreed upon percentage. We all think our stuff is worth more than it is. I suspect the OP might be happy at the end once he gets a final check and sees all the work that was done.?

We don’t have very many details and it seems like several members are quick to judge with minimal info.

I think Leon handled this very well too.

I wish the OP well with any medical issue he is having and hope this works itself out and everyone is happy in the end.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Is this a new policy? Feel like I have seen threads that could have been detrimental to an auction house during a live auction on the main board plenty of times.

I don't know if different ads appear for different users, but the banner on my front page has a prominent Leland's ad. I imagine that has a lot to do with it.

[oldjudge]

Perhaps the original poster could, as fully as possible, list what was in the consignment. Any images would also be helpful. Things should have been fully inventoried in the contract, but save that, a public list now may help to alleviate possible issues later. Other questions that the consignor may want to try to resolve are how and for what amount is the collection insured for loss or damage. As a SoCal resident I can vouch for the fact that the unexpected can happen. Also, how will the consignor be compensated. My guess is that the auctioning of these items will take some time. Will the consignor be paid as things are sold or only at the end.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Is this a new policy? Feel like I have seen threads that could have been detrimental to an auction house during a live auction on the main board plenty of times.

No new policy. Every situation is different. My position stands.
Thanks
.

[brianp-beme]

Something I noticed in the OP's first post is the following parenthetical statement that I don't believe anyone has mentioned:

(they DID NOT take it all as discussed, but cherry picked all of the more expensive items)

So the auction house did not take everything, but just what they viewed as more expensive? And this took two trucks? I understand that there is a lot of effort to sort through a large volume of items, especially if not super well-organized, but the OP claims this bounty was cherry-picked. To me it sounds like the auction house made a one-day determination of the more valuable items, and seeing it in this light, gave the consignor a really low percentage of the final winning auction bids. I suggest the OP try to come up with a list of what was taken by the auction company, and let us know what that is.

If nothing else we can be on the lookout for when these items come up for auction, and see if the auction house has indeed been fair with their consignment offer.

brianp(arker)-beme

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Something I noticed in the OP's first post is the following parenthetical statement that I don't believe anyone has mentioned:

(they DID NOT take it all as discussed, but cherry picked all of the more expensive items)

So the auction house did not take everything, but just what they viewed as more expensive? And this took two trucks?

They came with 2 trucks, but did not take it all, so maybe what they took didn't require both trucks.

[Exhibitman]

My personal view, strictly as a hobbyist, is that 40% of the net after authentication fees is a terrible deal and borderline exploitative in a situation like the consignor describes (assuming the recitation is accurate as to how it went down). I also find the "it's a lot work" excuse to be unconvincing; we all work hard. Probably the best thing to do is for the AHs to return the items and tear up the contract, and for the OP to return the advance (or to agree on what is to be kept to repay the advance). Legalities aside, the consignor is very unhappy and the situation is just distasteful enough to make it a potential PR nightmare. In this extremely competitive hobby, it is probably a business mistake to hide behind the contract and get trashed as a result. Happy customers may tell a friend or two; unhappy customers are sure to tell ten. I wonder how many readers here made the decision not to go with Lelands or Clean Sweep as a result of what they have read.

Now, as a lawyer, if I was consulted by a CA resident who appears to be a senior and in health-related distress, my go-to would be the financial elder abuse laws. In my state, one has to be very, very careful in dealing with seniors because the legal consequences of playing fast and loose with their assets are punishing. It is a hellscape of heavy civil and potential criminal penalties; one of my clients went to jail over a transaction that might not have been treated as a crime if his counterparty had been a 45 year old man instead of an old woman. If we take the OP at face value, it appears that some items that the consignor did not think were part of the deal were taken, and that the basis for the high fees (lots of work) may not ring true if there was substantial cherry-picking. One of the things that raises my concern if I was representing the auctioneers is the lack of detail in the contract. That, plus the two-on-one, speedy dealmaking in the consignor's home, are factors that can go into a determination of potential elder financial abuse. There is just enough doodie stink on the potpourri to be concerning.

[sflayank]

I'm flabbergasted that there are people on here who think 40% is reasonable
I dont care if there's 1000 items to be sold
In this market the auction house could easily auction it off in 3 auctions if necessary...no extra work
That excuse is total bs..THATS THEIR JOB...I know auction houses that would line up to take that consignment and give the consignor 100 %...not only that but if its an easy 100k
consignment AH would give consignor at least $30k
up front

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I know lawyers look for detailed contracts but these are very basic. There is a clause somewhere in there that states your signature makes it a binding contract based on the terms agreed to or some statement like that.

I believe the consignor pays 60% of the authentication fees based on the way it is written but that is a guess on my part.

Sorry to be harsh and of course for the OP's circumstances, but it looks like a case of consignor's regret to me and IMO just from general principles unless this deal is somehow unconscionable under industry standards, or is somehow missing enough basic terms to make it enforceable which I doubt (sure the ideal contract would cover a host of details but that's not necessary for a binding contract), then the OP will not be able to rescind it. Plus it's already been partially performed, as Leland's with the OP's consent packed the items and took them away. And maybe he got an advance too, I'd have to reread it.