Goldin Auctions

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Any system that extends bidding is bullshit. The end of the auction should be the end. Place your best offer before it ends.

It's meant to mimic a live auction in which a lot doesn't end until the bidding does. Unless you think that's BS live as well?

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's meant to mimic a live auction in which a lot doesn't end until the bidding does. Unless you think that's BS live as well?

Then why not just have that? It's a bad business practice IMO. They want their cake and eat it too.

If you want a live auction, then have that. If you want an ending time, just have that. The hammer drops the same on both.

Ebay you have timed auctions, you have BIN, and you have reserves. I don't like reserves and auctions that start at a dollar. Start it at the reserve. I know I was hit with shill bids in one auction with a reserve. The same bidder drove up 20 or 30 cards that day. Didn't win any, just got them where they wanted them. I'm sure many others noticed, they just wanted the card and stayed silent like me.


IMO adding time to an auction that closes, has that same effect. Who's driving the car at the other end? If you can't win on a timed auction, then you don't deserve overtime. I know plants are in auctions of every kind, and have witnessed it in multiple formats, both online and live.

This post isn't in any way about singling out Golden, but a general observation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Auctions are in business to maximize values for consignors and fees for themselves. Bidders may bitch about the format, the potential for shilling, and so forth, but if the stuff is out there they will bid. I very much doubt anyone is going to move to a hard close. Might as well tilt against a windmill IMO.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Auctions are in business to maximize values for consignors and fees for themselves. Bidders may bitch about the format, the potential for shilling, and so forth, but if the stuff is out there they will bid. I very much doubt anyone is going to move to a hard close. Might as well tilt against a windmill IMO.

Are you speaking in general term of sports cards and memorabilia auctions?

I know the largest live and in person online and TV automobile auction houses without naming them have hammer prices that are final bid just for comparison. I go to multiple local auction houses that have hard close hammer prices. I know there's house bidders as well. I would say they're timed in the sense of going going gone. You know the time is up. Ebay is an auction house with different types of endings, but all are known. If you're bidding IMO that's an auction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Are you speaking in general term of sports cards and memorabilia auctions?

I know the largest live and in person online and TV automobile auction houses without naming them have hammer prices that are final bid just for comparison. I go to multiple local auction houses that have hard close hammer prices. I know there's house bidders as well. I would say they're timed in the sense of going going gone. You know the time is up. Ebay is an auction house with different types of endings, but all are known. If you're bidding IMO that's an auction.

Only speaking about sports cards and memorabilia. The usual suspects we all know here. I think they all have some form of extended bidding?

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Only speaking about sports cards and memorabilia. The usual suspects we all know here. I think they all have some form of extended bidding?

OK, problem I have ran into is most online auctions don't have a real good policy in place that is understood. Lots of confusion vs just letting a hammer drop when the time is up.

I mean if people understand at 10pm EST bidding is over then get your highest bid in by that time. There's no confusion in that.

Also not sure if people that haven't bid before the extension are able to or not bid with Golden with the extended time. That's another issue.

I actually had to issue a warning (threat of lawsuit) to a memorabilia dealer about how they ended or didn't end auctions to their own rules. Tried to add several hundred dollars on 3 separate items that fell outside their rules. Luckily for me they were already under investigation for fraud, and no it wasn't Golden it was JO Sports Inc. Sadly it was due to how they handled the 30 minute extension. They had shill bids driving up the price even after the reserve was hit and time ended. I'd love to know how much they made doing unjust practices like that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

OK, problem I have ran into is most online auctions don't have a real good policy in place that is understood. Lots of confusion vs just letting a hammer drop when the time is up.

I mean if people understand at 10pm EST bidding is over then get your highest bid in by that time. There's no confusion in that.

Also not sure if people that haven't bid before the extension are able to or not bid with Golden with the extended time. That's another issue.

I actually had to issue a warning (threat of lawsuit) to a memorabilia dealer about how they ended or didn't end auctions to their own rules. Tried to add several hundred dollars on 3 separate items that fell outside their rules. Luckily for me they were already under investigation for fraud, and no it wasn't Golden it was JO Sports Inc. Sadly it was due to how they handled the 30 minute extension. They had shill bids driving up the price even after the reserve was hit and time ended. I'd love to know how much they made doing unjust practices like that.

I can't vouch for the language used but the concept of a lot by lot closing with a bid during the window extending the time to the next window is not difficult.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

I would say they're timed in the sense of going going gone. You know the time is up.

Live auctions have nothing to do with time. Going going... then I place a higher bid. Again, going going... you outbid me. And we could go back and forth for 10 minutes or more, to the auctioneer and consignor's delight.

In a live auction, and lot by lot closing online auctions, I ALWAYS have the chance to place another bid. With a timed close like ebay, I don't. Many times I've tried to get my snipe bid in and missed by a second or two, meaning, the clock denied me the chance, and the auctioneer and consignor missed out on some dough.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Live auctions have nothing to do with time. Going going... then I place a higher bid. Again, going going... you outbid me. And we could go back and forth for 10 minutes or more, to the auctioneer and consignor's delight.

In a live auction, and lot by lot closing online auctions, I ALWAYS have the chance to place another bid. With a timed close like ebay, I don't. Many times I've tried to get my snipe bid in and missed by a second or two, meaning, the clock denied me the chance, and the auctioneer and consignor missed out on some dough.

Sure they do. Live auction you know when time is up. Going once, going twice, sold. If you don't bid your time is up. Its up for all in the same manner. There's not a clocked time, but still a time frame in which to bid. If the auction says over by 10pm EST you ALWAYS have the chance to win as well.

You have the same right if it closes by clocked time as well. If someone has a higher bid you should have bid more vs trying to save money. Snipe is the chance you take vs giving your best or highest bid. You do so hoping to save yourself money. People have different approaches. Some put in one bid at their highest price and walk away. Others try to sneak a bid in hoping to save money vs being OK with their max bid. You win or lose the same in either scenario. My gripe is stay in one lane, and make sure its easy to understand the rules in place.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Sure they do. Live auction you know when time is up. Going once, going twice, sold. If you don't bid your time is up. Its up for all in the same manner. There's not a clocked time, but still a time frame in which to bid. If the auction says over by 10pm EST you ALWAYS have the chance to win as well.

You have the same right if it closes by clocked time as well. If someone has a higher bid you should have bid more vs trying to save money. Snipe is the chance you take vs giving your best or highest bid. You do so hoping to save yourself money. People have different approaches. Some put in one bid at their highest price and walk away. Others try to sneak a bid in hoping to save money vs being OK with their max bid. You win or lose the same in either scenario. My gripe is stay in one lane, and make sure its easy to understand the rules in place.

For a live auction to be like eBay, there would have to be a list of times that every item ended at. As others have pointed out, that's not how they work. Yes, there's a time that a lot actually ends, but it's not predetermined because someone can always place another bid before the auctioneer declares a lot sold. Until then, you don't truly know when the lot will close.

Earlier you complained about shill bidders. That's a big reason why people don't want to place a maximum bid early then hope it holds up because they suspect someone else may just bid them up with no real intention of winning the auction. Having extended bidding gives a bidder the chance to keep bidding if they want to without having to place their maximum bid a lot sooner than necessary. While every auction house has their own rules, it usually doesn't take much effort to figure out when a lot is closing. Every auction I bid in shows the amount of time left for each individual lot, and it gets updated accordingly based on the rules of the auction if/when someone places another bid either on the lot or on another lot if the entire auction closes at the same time.

[mrreality68]

Every auctions have what they think works for them and their customer base.

Their are auctions that never seem to end, auctions with extended time and then double secret extended time and some end as a total auction and others lot by lot.

Be nice if there is one way but reality there is not.

I just make sure I review the auction in front of me so I can plan accordingly.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Then why not just have that? It's a bad business practice IMO. They want their cake and eat it too.

If you want a live auction, then have that. If you want an ending time, just have that. The hammer drops the same on both.

Ebay you have timed auctions, you have BIN, and you have reserves. I don't like reserves and auctions that start at a dollar. Start it at the reserve. I know I was hit with shill bids in one auction with a reserve. The same bidder drove up 20 or 30 cards that day. Didn't win any, just got them where they wanted them. I'm sure many others noticed, they just wanted the card and stayed silent like me.


IMO adding time to an auction that closes, has that same effect. Who's driving the car at the other end? If you can't win on a timed auction, then you don't deserve overtime. I know plants are in auctions of every kind, and have witnessed it in multiple formats, both online and live.

auction
1 of 2
noun
auc·​tion ˈȯk-shən
Synonyms of auction
1
: a sale of property to the highest bidder


Basically time doesn't enter into it. I would argue what Ebay does is NOT a true auction.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

auction
1 of 2
noun
auc·​tion ˈȯk-shən
Synonyms of auction
1
: a sale of property to the highest bidder


Basically time doesn't enter into it. I would argue what Ebay does is NOT a true auction.

Problem with a one word blanket statement is just that. There's many different types of auctions.

When you try to mix multiple together is where you have issues. Especially when you have room for interpretation of the rules.

I think we all understand different types of auctions exist.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Any system that extends bidding is bullshit. The end of the auction should be the end. Place your best offer before it ends.

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's meant to mimic a live auction in which a lot doesn't end until the bidding does. Unless you think that's BS live as well?

What's BS about it IMO is that the extension time is so long. Imagine in a live, in-person auction:

"$1500 going once, going twice..."
"$1,600."

Then everyone sits there for 30 minutes until it's "going once, going twice" again.

Lol

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

What's BS about it IMO is that the extension time is so long. Imagine in a live, in-person auction:

"$1500 going once, going twice..."
"$1,600."

Then everyone sits there for 30 minutes until it's "going once, going twice" again.

Lol

I completely get that.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

What's BS about it IMO is that the extension time is so long. Imagine in a live, in-person auction:

"$1500 going once, going twice..."
"$1,600."

Then everyone sits there for 30 minutes until it's "going once, going twice" again.

Lol

Obviously, that doesn't happen in a live auction because there's just one lot at a time being bid on. In an online auction where there are sometimes several thousand lots all with bidding available, someone may be trying to monitor 50-100 lots (or more) that they're interested in so some amount of time is needed to make that possible. 30 minutes may seem too long, but it all depends on how many lots someone is interested in.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Obviously, that doesn't happen in a live auction because there's just one lot at a time being bid on. In an online auction where there are sometimes several thousand lots all with bidding available, someone may be trying to monitor 50-100 lots (or more) that they're interested in so some amount of time is needed to make that possible. 30 minutes may seem too long, but it all depends on how many lots someone is interested in.

Agreed

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Obviously, that doesn't happen in a live auction because there's just one lot at a time being bid on. In an online auction where there are sometimes several thousand lots all with bidding available, someone may be trying to monitor 50-100 lots (or more) that they're interested in so some amount of time is needed to make that possible. 30 minutes may seem too long, but it all depends on how many lots someone is interested in.

I have heard this argument. Realistically though, how many people are there at 3 am needing to adjust their bids on 50-100 items all at once? Even if one is following many items, a refresh of the bids page and a few clicks—even on many items—seems doable to me in a few minutes in the vast majority of cases.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I have heard this argument. Realistically though, how many people are there at 3 am needing to adjust their bids on 50-100 items all at once? Even if one is following many items, a refresh of the bids page and a few clicks—even on many items—seems doable to me in a few minutes in the vast majority of cases.

True, by 3 AM waiting another 30 minutes after a bid is tough and it's unlikely that many lots remain open. Shortly after extended bidding starts it's more likely to be possible for someone to be watching a lot of items, but 10-15 minutes would probably be enough time for most people.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by jayshum

True, by 3 AM waiting another 30 minutes after a bid is tough and it's unlikely that many lots remain open. Shortly after extended bidding starts it's more likely to be possible for someone to be watching a lot of items, but 10-15 minutes would probably be enough time for most people.

That would definitely be an improvement IMO.

[dariushou]

I see a lot of good discourse here, but let me explain my situation and a direct response to 4815162342 (Daryl) after the response.

I would like to say that i'm not bashing any layout of an auction because I try to understand what i'm getting into before bidding. I signed up to bid in an auction and try to understand the rules of engagement before the big night. That was my issue with this auction, but more of that in a few.

My preference would be a pure auction like ebay where there is a set time and it is over when the timer runs out...no extended crap. My second preference would be a lot by lot closing once extended bidding occurs (goldin was this way, but not how i understood it when shit came to shove -- more on that later). My last preference is the entire auction extends after every bid...i'm on east coast so that sucks. Ok, so that's my preference if anyone cared.

So, in response to 4815162342 (Daryl). Thanks for the links. I have issue with that...well 3. here they are:

1) The path you provided is a very specific way to find out the rules of engagement once the extended bidding is underway. There are 2 ways to get to the link you provided. a) By going to the home page, scrolling down and clicking on the exact auction you plan on bidding and then there is a link that has a brief description of how the auction works in extension mode. B) go to the homepage and click on the "Auction" menu item and think clicking on "Elite". Then you have to unclick the other Elite auctions that do not pertain to the auction that you are looking to bid on and you have to unclick the other auctions one at a time until your auction is the only one selected. It is a very specific way to get to a very basic question of how the auction works. Most auctionhouses have a terms and conditions (TOC) a the bottom of every single page that allows you to see just that. Goldin has a FAQs at the bottom of every single page that serves the same purpose. Every single page has an easy access versus a very specific path as you outline. ok, on to #2

2) If you compare the words in link you provided against the FAQs (i provide both directly below this paragraph so you don't need to scroll up) then you can conclude that they are in direct contrast or both are completely unclear.


Link of the FAQs:

"Extended Bidding - After an auction for an item closes, the auction will then enter an extended bidding window of 30 minutes for Elite Auctions and 15 minutes for Weekly Auctions. Extended bidding is open for everyone and for every item at auction. Each additional bid placed will extend the auction timer by 30 minutes for Elite Auctions and 15 minutes for Weekly Auctions. So get your bids in early!"

Link of what Daryl provided:

"Lots that receive more than 1 bid before 09:00 PM on closing day will remain open for bidding for 30 additional minutes. The timer resets to 30 minutes with each new bid until the timer expires with no new bids."

3) If you are like me, when the auction first launches, you go to the auction and put in your initial bids on the auctions you may like to bid on once the auction hits extended bidding hours. During the final day of the auction, you are NOT going to the main page of an auction. You are going to your account and you are going to the link that shows the items you are bidding on. It is not like you are going to sit there and scroll through a needle in a haystack and look for the items you are bidding on. You are going to YOUR bidding list. And, if you want to find the rules of engagement at that point, you are going to the TOC or FAQs at the bottom of every damn page. simple and efficient.

So here was my situation. I'm travelling in Mexico on vacation. I specifically went to their FAQs before i went out so that I knew exactly what to expect in the Auction. It was clear TO ME that every time a bid was placed in the auction that the entire auction was extended for 30 minutes (i hate those type of auctions, but i signed up for it - or i thought i had). So i was at a restaurant and it was approaching 9:30 EST and i put in a bid to extend the entire auction (or i thought i had) and checked one more auction and it too was on a 29 minute and some few seconds so I thought "cool, looks like any bid placed extended the entire auction by 30 minutes"). Yes, i hate that too. Way to much advantage to the west coast if you ask me. Anyhow, i get home and pull up the auction which i thought was extended and find out that i only have like 5 auctions left to bid on. PISSED does not describe it. Anyhow, i won all but one of those 5, but would have won a lot more...T206 rare backs....


So that is my story and why that description from Goldin was b.s. Seriously, that should be one of the most important things the auctionhouse lays out VERY CLEARLY. And it should be consistent to other areas of the website. In fact, a good clear example should be in order too. Honestly, how that is overlooked is beyond me and i'll gladly write up something that makes it abundantly clear on how it works but Jesus Christ, how do you not do this for yourself is beyond me. It takes no longer than 10 minutes to write something is clear and you (Goldin) is inexcusable. Do i bid on other Goldin Auctions? I first have to see what you have to offer. I'm very less inclined to even look now and i'm a stubborn SOB.

-Darius

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I have heard this argument. Realistically though, how many people are there at 3 am needing to adjust their bids on 50-100 items all at once? Even if one is following many items, a refresh of the bids page and a few clicks—even on many items—seems doable to me in a few minutes in the vast majority of cases.

We have gotten a handful of complaints that our 15 minutes isn't long enough.