Goldin Auctions

Vintage Vern · #1 02-16-2025, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Auctions are in business to maximize values for consignors and fees for themselves. Bidders may bitch about the format, the potential for shilling, and so forth, but if the stuff is out there they will bid. I very much doubt anyone is going to move to a hard close. Might as well tilt against a windmill IMO.

Are you speaking in general term of sports cards and memorabilia auctions?

I know the largest live and in person online and TV automobile auction houses without naming them have hammer prices that are final bid just for comparison. I go to multiple local auction houses that have hard close hammer prices. I know there's house bidders as well. I would say they're timed in the sense of going going gone. You know the time is up. Ebay is an auction house with different types of endings, but all are known. If you're bidding IMO that's an auction.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 02-16-2025, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Are you speaking in general term of sports cards and memorabilia auctions?

I know the largest live and in person online and TV automobile auction houses without naming them have hammer prices that are final bid just for comparison. I go to multiple local auction houses that have hard close hammer prices. I know there's house bidders as well. I would say they're timed in the sense of going going gone. You know the time is up. Ebay is an auction house with different types of endings, but all are known. If you're bidding IMO that's an auction.

Only speaking about sports cards and memorabilia. The usual suspects we all know here. I think they all have some form of extended bidding?

Vintage Vern · #3 02-16-2025, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Only speaking about sports cards and memorabilia. The usual suspects we all know here. I think they all have some form of extended bidding?

OK, problem I have ran into is most online auctions don't have a real good policy in place that is understood. Lots of confusion vs just letting a hammer drop when the time is up.

I mean if people understand at 10pm EST bidding is over then get your highest bid in by that time. There's no confusion in that.

Also not sure if people that haven't bid before the extension are able to or not bid with Golden with the extended time. That's another issue.

I actually had to issue a warning (threat of lawsuit) to a memorabilia dealer about how they ended or didn't end auctions to their own rules. Tried to add several hundred dollars on 3 separate items that fell outside their rules. Luckily for me they were already under investigation for fraud, and no it wasn't Golden it was JO Sports Inc. Sadly it was due to how they handled the 30 minute extension. They had shill bids driving up the price even after the reserve was hit and time ended. I'd love to know how much they made doing unjust practices like that.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 02-16-2025, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

OK, problem I have ran into is most online auctions don't have a real good policy in place that is understood. Lots of confusion vs just letting a hammer drop when the time is up.

I mean if people understand at 10pm EST bidding is over then get your highest bid in by that time. There's no confusion in that.

Also not sure if people that haven't bid before the extension are able to or not bid with Golden with the extended time. That's another issue.

I actually had to issue a warning (threat of lawsuit) to a memorabilia dealer about how they ended or didn't end auctions to their own rules. Tried to add several hundred dollars on 3 separate items that fell outside their rules. Luckily for me they were already under investigation for fraud, and no it wasn't Golden it was JO Sports Inc. Sadly it was due to how they handled the 30 minute extension. They had shill bids driving up the price even after the reserve was hit and time ended. I'd love to know how much they made doing unjust practices like that.

I can't vouch for the language used but the concept of a lot by lot closing with a bid during the window extending the time to the next window is not difficult.

Vintage Vern · #5 02-16-2025, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I can't vouch for the language used but the concept of a lot by lot closing with a bid during the window extending the time to the next window is not difficult.

It doesn't appear to be the case by the OP and a few others. Maybe a better placment of rules may be in order? I know once a hammer drops its pretty simple as well.

Mark17 · #6 02-16-2025, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

I would say they're timed in the sense of going going gone. You know the time is up.

Live auctions have nothing to do with time. Going going... then I place a higher bid. Again, going going... you outbid me. And we could go back and forth for 10 minutes or more, to the auctioneer and consignor's delight.

In a live auction, and lot by lot closing online auctions, I ALWAYS have the chance to place another bid. With a timed close like ebay, I don't. Many times I've tried to get my snipe bid in and missed by a second or two, meaning, the clock denied me the chance, and the auctioneer and consignor missed out on some dough.

Vintage Vern · #7 02-16-2025, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

Live auctions have nothing to do with time. Going going... then I place a higher bid. Again, going going... you outbid me. And we could go back and forth for 10 minutes or more, to the auctioneer and consignor's delight.

In a live auction, and lot by lot closing online auctions, I ALWAYS have the chance to place another bid. With a timed close like ebay, I don't. Many times I've tried to get my snipe bid in and missed by a second or two, meaning, the clock denied me the chance, and the auctioneer and consignor missed out on some dough.

Sure they do. Live auction you know when time is up. Going once, going twice, sold. If you don't bid your time is up. Its up for all in the same manner. There's not a clocked time, but still a time frame in which to bid. If the auction says over by 10pm EST you ALWAYS have the chance to win as well.

You have the same right if it closes by clocked time as well. If someone has a higher bid you should have bid more vs trying to save money. Snipe is the chance you take vs giving your best or highest bid. You do so hoping to save yourself money. People have different approaches. Some put in one bid at their highest price and walk away. Others try to sneak a bid in hoping to save money vs being OK with their max bid. You win or lose the same in either scenario. My gripe is stay in one lane, and make sure its easy to understand the rules in place.

jayshum · #8 02-16-2025, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Sure they do. Live auction you know when time is up. Going once, going twice, sold. If you don't bid your time is up. Its up for all in the same manner. There's not a clocked time, but still a time frame in which to bid. If the auction says over by 10pm EST you ALWAYS have the chance to win as well.

You have the same right if it closes by clocked time as well. If someone has a higher bid you should have bid more vs trying to save money. Snipe is the chance you take vs giving your best or highest bid. You do so hoping to save yourself money. People have different approaches. Some put in one bid at their highest price and walk away. Others try to sneak a bid in hoping to save money vs being OK with their max bid. You win or lose the same in either scenario. My gripe is stay in one lane, and make sure its easy to understand the rules in place.

For a live auction to be like eBay, there would have to be a list of times that every item ended at. As others have pointed out, that's not how they work. Yes, there's a time that a lot actually ends, but it's not predetermined because someone can always place another bid before the auctioneer declares a lot sold. Until then, you don't truly know when the lot will close.

Earlier you complained about shill bidders. That's a big reason why people don't want to place a maximum bid early then hope it holds up because they suspect someone else may just bid them up with no real intention of winning the auction. Having extended bidding gives a bidder the chance to keep bidding if they want to without having to place their maximum bid a lot sooner than necessary. While every auction house has their own rules, it usually doesn't take much effort to figure out when a lot is closing. Every auction I bid in shows the amount of time left for each individual lot, and it gets updated accordingly based on the rules of the auction if/when someone places another bid either on the lot or on another lot if the entire auction closes at the same time.

Vintage Vern · #9 02-16-2025, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum

For a live auction to be like eBay, there would have to be a list of times that every item ended at. As others have pointed out, that's not how they work. Yes, there's a time that a lot actually ends, but it's not predetermined because someone can always place another bid before the auctioneer declares a lot sold. Until then, you don't truly know when the lot will close.

Earlier you complained about shill bidders. That's a big reason why people don't want to place a maximum bid early then hope it holds up because they suspect someone else may just bid them up with no real intention of winning the auction. Having extended bidding gives a bidder the chance to keep bidding if they want to without having to place their maximum bid a lot sooner than necessary. While every auction house has their own rules, it usually doesn't take much effort to figure out when a lot is closing. Every auction I bid in shows the amount of time left for each individual lot, and it gets updated accordingly based on the rules of the auction if/when someone places another bid either on the lot or on another lot if the entire auction closes at the same time.

You know exactly when a lot is sold, and it is predetermined, not by a specific time, but a specific procedure for all, the same way, lot after lot. The high bidder wins by the exact same procedure.

A live auction can be over at the same time for every lot. You put your best bid in on 30 items and pray. Extending time won't help that if you get out bid anyway. If bidder A has a max bid of 10k will it change if the hammer drops at a set time vs adding time if bidder B puts in a bid for 11K? The winning bid will always be the highest bid.

May as well just start the auction and let people bid until no one bids again in a 30 minute period. Don't set a end time then extend it. Wouldn't that be the same result? To me you set a deadline then break it without clear cut understanding of how things work. That's what the main discussion is.

In my scenario it was a reserve auction that started at a buck and the shill bidder got the cards to the reserve they wanted. To me just start the bids at your reserve. They didn't try to out bid anyone passed the reserve. The people that hit the reserve won as long as no other bidder bid. The shill bidder knew what to push.

Ebay is kind of a unicorn anyway. They have multiple ways to the same end for both seller and buyer. You can even negotiate a price not listed. It's an auction and garage sale all in one. If you like the BIN price you can end it or you can take a risk and put in an opening bid and hope you win at the end and everything in-between.

The worst type of auction I've been involved in are silent auctions.

benjulmag · #10 02-16-2025, 03:01 PM

An auction that ends at a set time with no opportunity for a losing bidder to raise his/her bid by definition cannot achieve the highest price for the consignor. The reason I say "by definition" is because it is a human trait not to know how high we will bid until we are faced with the realization that we will not win the item unless we raise our bid. I can't tell you how many times I ended up placing a bid much higher than I originally intended when my "can't lose bid" had been topped.

I will add that not only is an auction that ends at a set time not in the best interest of the consignor, IMO it is not in the best interest of the bidder. I for one would like the satisfaction of knowing that if I am to end up losing the lot, it was at least via a bidding format that afforded me one last shot to top a bid or know I would not win it.

oldjudge · #11 02-16-2025, 03:10 PM

I agree with Corey. I want the opportunity to do something really stupid that I will undoubtedly question the next day, but may be happy about several years down the road. What I don’t like about the Goldin format is that I find it very difficult to find results after a lot closes. Why not just do what REA does and leave all the lots up for everyone to see.
.

Vintage Vern · #12 02-16-2025, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

An auction that ends at a set time with no opportunity for a losing bidder to raise his/her bid by definition cannot achieve the highest price for the consignor. The reason I say "by definition" is because it is a human trait not to know how high we will bid until we are faced with the realization that we will not win the item unless we raise our bid. I can't tell you how many times I ended up placing a bid much higher than I originally intended when my "can't lose bid" had been topped.

I will add that not only is an auction that ends at a set time not in the best interest of the consignor, IMO it is not in the best interest of the bidder. I for one would like the satisfaction of knowing that if I am to end up losing the lot, it was at least via a bidding format that afforded me one last shot to top a bid or know I would not win it.

That's on you. You have all the time in the world to bid higher before the auction ends. Maybe because you know you have a safety net you just hope to lowball a card in hopes you get it that way. People that truly want something, and know they only have 1 shot will bid their max, and call it a day. If most auctions had the same type format as Ebay you could bid high as you feel comfortable with and still not hit your max bid. I made a bid once and knew I had to do something at the end of auction time, and was glad I had that option. I won even though it went much higher then I expected, but was happy I won with my eary max bid.

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