B/S/T Etiquette

Balticfox · #1 02-23-2025, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum

This happens all the time in the housing market. No one seems to have a problem with it.

I do! For the listing price not to be treated as a firm offer to sell at that price is absurd. And you'll find it very difficult to find any stock broker who does not agree with me. Offer/Ask=the Price at which a Seller agrees to Sell. Bid=the Price at which a Buyer agrees to Buy.

jayshum · #2 02-23-2025, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I do! For the listing price not to be treated as a firm offer to sell at that price is absurd. And you'll find it very difficult to find any stock broker who does not agree with me. Offer/Ask=the Price at which a Seller agrees to Sell. Bid=the Price at which a Buyer agrees to Buy.

The stock market and the housing market are very different as far as how they are regulated and how they work. Also, people have no problem offering less than the listed price for a house so why should a seller be prohibited from accepting a higher offer?

Balticfox · #3 02-23-2025, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum

Also, people have no problem offering less than the listed price for a house....

That's a bid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum

...so why should a seller be prohibited from accepting a higher offer?

No need for a prohibition. But since a buyer should be able to simply take up the offering, there would be no need to bid a higher price than the offering, i.e. listed price.

jayshum · #4 02-23-2025, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

That's a bid.

No need for a prohibition. But since a buyer should be able to simply take up the offering, there would be no need to bid a higher price than the offering, i.e. listed price.

I'm sorry if you don't like how the housing market works, but I don't think it's going to change just to make you happy.

Balticfox · #5 02-23-2025, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum

I'm sorry if you don't like how the housing market works....

Yes, that's the way house selling works, but it leaves a lot to be desired before it can be classified as a fair or efficient market.

BRoberts · #6 02-24-2025, 04:26 AM

About 25 years ago my wife and I sold a house in a competitive market. Asking price was around $350,000. We orally agreed to an offer of our asking price. Before we were legally bound, we received another offer $10,000 above asking. We declined. Our agent was surprised and assured us we were within our legal right to accept the new offer. We said that even though we legally could go back on our word, it wasn't something we thought was the right thing to do.

Passing no judgment here. I share the story only to illustrate that such practices aren't new. We were and are blessed that we could comfortably walk away from an extra $10,000 and instead do what we think was morally just. I understand that an extra $10,000 selling a house or an extra $10 selling a card is more important to some than to others. I don't agree with the thought that going back on your word is an accepted practice by everyone, no matter what the scenario or amount of money.

Republicaninmass · #7 02-24-2025, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRoberts

About 25 years ago my wife and I sold a house in a competitive market. Asking price was around $350,000. We orally agreed to an offer of our asking price. Before we were legally bound, we received another offer $10,000 above asking. We declined. Our agent was surprised and assured us we were within our legal right to accept the new offer. We said that even though we legally could go back on our word, it wasn't something we thought was the right thing to do.

Passing no judgment here. I share the story only to illustrate that such practices aren't new. We were and are blessed that we could comfortably walk away from an extra $10,000 and instead do what we think was morally just. I understand that an extra $10,000 selling a house or an extra $10 selling a card is more important to some than to others. I don't agree with the thought that going back on your word is an accepted practice by everyone, no matter what the scenario or amount of money.

Bit of a straw man here, but in today's market, least on my street, offers are 200k over asking. It wouldn't be financially prudent to still hold your word for 200k more. Same I've seen with some transactions. A card grossly mispriced, someone emails the seller "hey dumb dumb" card is sold for much higher.

Balticfox · #8 02-24-2025, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRoberts

About 25 years ago my wife and I sold a house in a competitive market. Asking price was around $350,000. We orally agreed to an offer of our asking price. Before we were legally bound, we received another offer $10,000 above asking. We declined. Our agent was surprised and assured us we were within our legal right to accept the new offer. We said that even though we legally could go back on our word, it wasn't something we thought was the right thing to do.

Passing no judgment here. I share the story only to illustrate that such practices aren't new. We were and are blessed that we could comfortably walk away from an extra $10,000 and instead do what we think was morally just. I understand that an extra $10,000 selling a house or an extra $10 selling a card is more important to some than to others. I don't agree with the thought that going back on your word is an accepted practice by everyone, no matter what the scenario or amount of money.

Kudos to you! A man's word should be his bond.

Peter_Spaeth · #9 02-23-2025, 11:16 PM

B/S/T translations.

"Asking $1000 net to me dlvd."
Translation: if you offer me $1000, I'll consider it.

"I'll take it!!"
Translation: I offer $1000, should you choose to accept it.

"PM sent"
Translation: useless attempt to discourage subsequent offers because being first is irrelevant.

OhioLawyerF5 · #10 02-24-2025, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I do! For the listing price not to be treated as a firm offer to sell at that price is absurd. And you'll find it very difficult to find any stock broker who does not agree with me. Offer/Ask=the Price at which a Seller agrees to Sell. Bid=the Price at which a Buyer agrees to Buy.

For someone appearing to work in the stock market, you seem to not understand fundamental differences between a brokered sale of stock and a sale of private personal property, and the legal reasons for that (hint: there were a couple important laws passed in the 30s that deal with securities and treat them differently).

Balticfox · #11 02-24-2025, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

For someone appearing to work in the stock market....

Yes, that's what many customers would say about stockbrokers back in the day!

It's interesting though. If you asked me now whether I should have become an actual stock broker many years earlier in the 1970's, I'd now say "Sure!" But if you asked me whether I'd like to be a stock broker now, I'd say "No!" Times have changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

..you seem to not understand fundamental differences between a brokered sale of stock and a sale of private personal property, and the legal reasons for that (hint: there were a couple important laws passed in the 30s that deal with securities and treat them differently).

I understand that stock and futures (e.g. commodities) markets are about as pure and efficient markets as can exist. I'm also fully aware that other kinds of selling fall far short of these in terms of purity/efficiency. Unlike you though I find this situation to be sad.

OhioLawyerF5 · #12 02-24-2025, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yes, that's what many customers would say about stockbrokers back in the day!

It's interesting though. If you asked me now whether I should have become an actual stock broker many years earlier in the 1970's, I'd now say "Sure!" But if you asked me whether I'd like to be a stock broker now, I'd say "No!" Times have changed.

I understand that stock and futures (e.g. commodities) markets are about as pure and efficient markets as can exist. I'm also fully aware that other kinds of selling fall far short of these in terms of purity/efficiency. Unlike you though I find this situation to be sad.

You can't possibly believe that to be true. It is the opposite of sad that a private sale of personal property is not as heavily regulated as the stock market. The last thing we need is more government interference in simple transactions.

Balticfox · #13 02-24-2025, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

You can't possibly believe that to be true. It is the opposite of sad that a private sale of personal property is not as heavily regulated as the stock market. The last thing we need is more government interference in simple transactions.

I agree. We need no more government regulations. I'm arguing for a simple "A man's word is his bond" standard. That's effectively what's been in force in stock, bond and futures markets since late in the 19th century.

OhioLawyerF5 · #14 02-24-2025, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I agree. We need no more government regulations. I'm arguing for a simple "A man's word is his bond" standard. That's effectively what's been in force in stock, bond and futures markets since late in the 19th century.

This has nothing to do with a man's word being his bond. We all agree a man's word should be his bond (in fact, I've said a man's word can be a binding contract). This thread was about a situation where there had not been an agreement in place. No man's word had been given.

Mark17 · #15 02-24-2025, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I understand that stock and futures (e.g. commodities) markets are about as pure and efficient markets as can exist. I'm also fully aware that other kinds of selling fall far short of these in terms of purity/efficiency. Unlike you though I find this situation to be sad.

I'm curious. If
1. You had a unique item of a former player, let's say a vintage game used jersey
2. You list it for $1000, then go to a movie
3. When you return home, you have 2 people wanting to buy it. The first, timestamped at 7:30, is an auction house that will buy to flip. The second, timestamped a couple minutes later, is from the player's son. Turns out the player passed away the previous week and the family is in mourning.

Would you hold to your rigid, dogmatic principle of how pure and efficient markets should work (first offer to buy gets the cheese,) or take a more human approach?

clydepepper · #16 02-24-2025, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

I'm curious. If
1. You had a unique item of a former player, let's say a vintage game used jersey
2. You list it for $1000, then go to a movie
3. When you return home, you have 2 people wanting to buy it. The first, timestamped at 7:30, is an auction house that will buy to flip. The second, timestamped a couple minutes later, is from the player's son. Turns out the player passed away the previous week and the family is in mourning.

Would you hold to your rigid, dogmatic principle of how pure and efficient markets should work (first offer to buy gets the cheese,) or take a more human approach?

In my opinion (aka whatever that's worth), if both offers are forum members, the timestamp rules. Uncomplicated rule for someone who tries to be fair, but uncomplicated.

...'go to a what?'

Balticfox · #17 02-25-2025, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17

I'm curious. If

1. You had a unique item of a former player, let's say a vintage game used jersey
2. You list it for $1000, then go to a movie
3. When you return home, you have 2 people wanting to buy it. The first, timestamped at 7:30, is an auction house that will buy to flip. The second, timestamped a couple minutes later, is from the player's son. Turns out the player passed away the previous week and the family is in mourning.

Would you hold to your rigid, dogmatic principle of how pure and efficient markets should work (first offer to buy gets the cheese,) or take a more human approach?

Well given the nature of this forum I would effectively be receiving both offers at the same time. Moreover given the inefficiencies introduced by living my life and other people living theirs, there can be no rational expectation that everyone sees my offer at the instant I post it. Therefore I would choose the player's son instead of the known flipper. Quite simply, I'd have the very good reason:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Absent a good reason, an individual cannot simply choose whom to sell to.

But I would make my decision immediately at the time choosing from among the PM's I'd received.

Mark17 · #18 02-25-2025, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Therefore I would choose the player's son instead of the known flipper.

Good to know it isn't quite as cold in Canada as I thought.

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