Ken Kendrick Talks About His Altered Wagner

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda

PSA would love to get it for 2.8
guessing it is now worth in the area of 30-40 million

I think even if it was changed from a PSA 8 to Authentic Trimmed
it would still retain the same value...the pedigree alone and history of this one
card.

Agreed. At this point the flip is irrelevant.

[mrreality68]

Wow the inside story

Cool video

Thanks for sharing

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Great Video. Just a stunning card and collection. With extra love to the PSA 9 Cobb and JJ CJ's in the video. Good lord.

p.s. I don't mind Geoff Wilson. I appreciate his enthusiasm for the hobby.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Great Video. Just a stunning card and collection. With extra love to the PSA 9 Cobb and JJ CJ's in the video. Good lord.

p.s. I don't mind Geoff Wilson. I appreciate his enthusiasm for the hobby.

Enthusiasm is one thing, but putting out videos telling people (especially kids) who to invest in while he has lost millions with his investments is very irresponsible.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Enthusiasm is one thing, but putting out videos telling people (especially kids) who to invest in while he has lost millions with his investments is very irresponsible.

Is Gary Vee still out there?

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is Gary Vee still out there?

Probably got bored and left.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Probably got bored and left.

Yeah. Now influencing something else.

[Pat R]

There are so many stories about the card. What I found very intriguing is what Kendrick said he and the private investigator that he hired found in tracking the history of the card.

Alan Ray has never said who he got the card from but Kendrick said it belonged to a couple in Palm Beach Florida and it was in a shoe box with 30 other cards and after the husband passed away the wife was going to throw the cards out but an emplyee said that he wanted them and that employee was a relative of Alan Ray.

On the other hand Bill Mastro said that there were hundreds of other cards that were with the Wagner when he purchased it but who knows with him in his interview with Brian Gray he also said that his grandmother found a wagner in a shoebox that she had which I find very hard to believe.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pat R

There are so many stories about the card. What I found very intriguing is what Kendrick said he and the private investigator that he hired found in tracking the history of the card.

Alan Ray has never said who he got the card from but Kendrick said it belonged to a couple in Palm Beach Florida and it was in a shoe box with 30 other cards and after the husband passed away the wife was going to throw the cards out but an emplyee said that he wanted them and that employee was a relative of Alan Ray.

On the other hand Bill Mastro said that there were hundreds of other cards that were with the Wagner when he purchased it but who knows with him in his interview with Brian Gray he also said that his grandmother found a wagner in a shoebox that she had which I find very hard to believe.

I thought the received wisdom is that Ray got it from his father who had found it at a Florida flea market. I don't understand how a p.i. hired 20 years after the fact would be in a position to uncover much of anything about a single baseball card.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I thought the received wisdom is that Ray got it from his father who had found it at a Florida flea market. I don't understand how a p.i. hired 20 years after the fact would be in a position to uncover much of anything about a single baseball card.

Yes that's one of the stories but in his interview Kendrick says that he has a pre-altered photo of the card that he got from the "people involved in the original sale of the card" so if that's true then he or the p.i. he hired must have talked to Ray or Sevchuk.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Enthusiasm is one thing, but putting out videos telling people (especially kids) who to invest in while he has lost millions with his investments is very irresponsible.

Totally agreed. I've tried, but it's hard to not see Wilson as a bit of a slimeball. His previous "investments" that are all on the ocean floor right now with the Titanic somehow seem to get conveniently ignored. Maybe he does some good somewhere in other spheres, but from what I've seen when the videos get specific - he is painfully unfamiliar with most vintage cards, and on the other side from what I can tell his stuff seems to be mostly all about money.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Agreed. At this point the flip is irrelevant.

Not a chance in hell. It would absolutely plummet in value. Certainly not to the level of other authentic or low grade copies, but it would almost certainly fall to where high eye appeal altered cards typically land, which is usually about the price of a PSA 4.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Not a chance in hell. It would absolutely plummet in value. Certainly not to the level of other authentic or low grade copies, but it would almost certainly fall to where high eye appeal altered cards typically land, which is usually about the price of a PSA 4.

+1

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Not a chance in hell. It would absolutely plummet in value. Certainly not to the level of other authentic or low grade copies, but it would almost certainly fall to where high eye appeal altered cards typically land, which is usually about the price of a PSA 4.

I think it depends on how strongly the connection is between this being THE WAGNER, and it being in a PSA 8 holder.

Certainly this card has some crazy notoriety that eclipses the flip.

But once you divorce the card from the flip, is it still the same card? While the cardboard purists and grading naysayers among us will definitely suggest that it’s the same card with or without the flip, I’m not convinced that there isn’t some diminution in value due to reduced cachet and recognizability if the flip is removed.

A there’s no question that for the set registry goons out there, the flip makes a difference, even for THE WAGNER.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Not a chance in hell. It would absolutely plummet in value. Certainly not to the level of other authentic or low grade copies, but it would almost certainly fall to where high eye appeal altered cards typically land, which is usually about the price of a PSA 4.

I disagree. The value is all in the notoriety and historical significance at this point. it's the most famous card in the hobby. It had a book written about it. Everyone knows it's sheet cut and then cut again. Well, maybe not the sheet cut part, but the second cut for sure. Who cares that the flip says 8?

[samosa4u]

I'm very surprised that Ken's collection has almost no diversity. The only non-baseball cards I see are George Mikan, Michael Jordan and Bronko Nagurski. Where the heck is everyone else ?? What about the rookies of Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Julius Erving ?? What about Johnny Unitas, Jim Brown, Bart Starr, Paul Hornung and Joe Namath ? What about Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky ?? I could go on and on here ... I know baseball cards are king, but still, for him to just pass over all those guys I mentioned ... very surprising. I would take a MINT Wilt over most of those baseball players.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I'm very surprised that Ken's collection has almost no diversity. The only non-baseball cards I see are George Mikan, Michael Jordan and Bronko Nagurski. Where the heck is everyone else ?? What about the rookies of Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Julius Erving ?? What about Johnny Unitas, Jim Brown, Bart Starr, Paul Hornung and Joe Namath ? What about Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky ?? I could go on and on here ... I know baseball cards are king, but still, for him to just pass over all those guys I mentioned ... very surprising. I would take a MINT Wilt over most of those baseball players.

Many vintage collectors exclusively collect baseball and have zero interest in other sports. I am one of those people for example.

[brunswickreeves]

He mentioned a couple things that highlight his hyper selection focus: First is that he was collecting baseball cards since 1952. Second is that he turned down a private purchasing option of a higher graded version of the 55 Topps Clemente. Although his auction bidding proxy stopped bidding on at 3am once the max price Ken was willing to pay for the Clemente was exceeded by another bidder who ultimately won the card, that same buyer has tried to sell to Ken at a big multiple. He said in business he learned basically when to walk away. So his money seems very strategically spent to a limit. Thus a reason he may not want to spend one single dollar on something that doesn’t fit his collecting goals, since that would take that dollar away from something else he wanted to attain.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Many vintage collectors exclusively collect baseball and have zero interest in other sports. I am one of those people for example.

But Ken does like other sports and he was once the part-owner of the Phoenix Suns. He probably had dinner with many of those guys I mentioned above.

Bottom line is this: you can't have the best collection in the world if you focus just on one sport. It's not about who has all the highest-graded examples or how much money your collection is worth, it's about diversity. You could have a beautiful PSA 6 Mantle, but if you also have Chamberlain, Gretzky, Howe, Jack Nicklaus, Pele, etc., then that's what makes a great collection.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

But Ken does like other sports and he was once the part-owner of the Phoenix Suns. He probably had dinner with many of those guys I mentioned above.

Bottom line is this: you can't have the best collection in the world if you focus just on one sport. It's not about who has all the highest-graded examples or how much money your collection is worth, it's about diversity. You could have a beautiful PSA 6 Mantle, but if you also have Chamberlain, Gretzky, Howe, Jack Nicklaus, Pele, etc., then that's what makes a great collection.

The best collection in the world is definitely not Kens. This one is about a zillion times better. Don't know if it's the best either but I'd think its up there.

https://youtu.be/QXavhN_jtCA