Does PSA give favoritism to certain dealers/customers?

[Ima Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Absolutely not in any way shape or form, just another urban myth. Seriously they are way too inconsistent to worry about favoritism. Who hasn't had cards that you complained about being under graded and cards seriously over graded that you sold because it deserved the grade? It is almost as silly as the raised the bar and they are now grading 2 grades below a couple years ago. LOL, I have been hearing that one for decades and if true a 3 would be the highest grade they gave out by now. I know I can easily cherry pick cards from any era that are over and under graded just like many others are doing.

It's absolutely not an urban myth. The evidence is right in PSA's own data, where there are numerous examples where large blocks of cards being submitted by a single seller are all miraculously given perfect grades.

When a single submitter does better/gets luckier than another single submitter, an argument can be made that he just has a better eye for this thing, or he has a better rabbit's foot in his pocket. But when a single submitter does better than the rest of the world combined -- by a factor of 1000 -- then that amounts to statistically provable fraud.

It's not that the single submitter has a great eye... it's that he miraculously comes in contact with more perfect cards than the rest of the world *combined*; and that's just not logical, reasonable, or possible.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ima Pseudonym

It's absolutely not an urban myth. The evidence is right in PSA's own data, where there are numerous examples where large blocks of cards being submitted by a single seller are all miraculously given perfect grades.

When a single submitter does better/gets luckier than another single submitter, an argument can be made that he just has a better eye for this thing, or he has a better rabbit's foot in his pocket. But when a single submitter does better than the rest of the world combined -- by a factor of 1000 -- then that amounts to statistically provable fraud.

It's not that the single submitter has a great eye... it's that he miraculously comes in contact with more perfect cards than the rest of the world *combined*; and that's just not logical, reasonable, or possible.

To be fair, part of that may be the use of the minimum grade -- the cards that don't qualify may not get a cert. number.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To be fair, part of that may be the use of the minimum grade -- the cards that don't qualify may not get a cert. number.

I’m pretty sure they still get assigned a cert during the grading process. The cert just doesn’t show up in the database because it never gets activated. So you would have some gaps in the certs if you tried to check out a bunch of certs all in a row, if some of them did not meet the min grade specified.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I’m pretty sure they still get assigned a cert during the grading process. The cert just doesn’t show up in the database because it never gets activated. So you would have some gaps in the certs if you tried to check out a bunch of certs all in a row, if some of them did not meet the min grade specified.

The 4SCs of the world seem to get more than their share of 10s (to put it mildly), but it isn't every single card.

[Ima Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To be fair, part of that may be the use of the minimum grade -- the cards that don't qualify may not get a cert. number.

I find it very difficult to conceive of people putting a "minimum grade 10" on their card, unless they know they're going to get 10s. Why would they pay for all the grading fees when 98% of "mint looking" cards traditionally don't receive a 10? And why WOULDN'T they want a 9? The card would be way more valuable in a 9 than it would ever be raw. That doesn't make sense to me.

There are many examples where there are a very limited number of 10's have ever been graded of a certain card over decades, and it turns out the majority of them were all graded at the same time, in the same submission, for the same submitter.

That's not happenstance, that's fraud.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ima Pseudonym

Nobody puts a "minimum grade 10" on their card, unless they know they're going to get 10s.

There are many examples where there are a very limited number of 10's have ever been graded of a certain card over decades, and it turns out the majority of them were all graded at the same time, in the same submission, for the same submitter.

That's not happenstance, that's fraud.

No argument from me about the overall thesis, for sure.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Ima Pseudonym

Nobody puts a "minimum grade 10" on their card, unless they know they're going to get 10s.

There are many examples where there are a very limited number of 10's have ever been graded of a certain card over decades, and it turns out the majority of them were all graded at the same time, in the same submission, for the same submitter.

That's not happenstance, that's fraud.

You can have any opinion you want but at the top of every page it clearly states. If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by bnorth

You can have any opinion you want but at the top of every page it clearly states. If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it.

You suggesting that Ima isn’t the poster’s real given name?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

You suggesting that Ima isn’t the poster’s real given name?

A nom de guerre perhaps.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A nom de guerre perhaps.

Ima crossed the anonymity line.

.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Ima Pseudonym

...why WOULDN'T they want a 9?...

In the wild, wacky world of modern cards, a graded 9 often sells for less than a raw, pack fresh equivalent. That's counter-intuitive, in my opinion; however, it seems to be the current reality.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

In the wild, wacky world of modern cards, a graded 9 often sells for less than a raw, pack fresh equivalent. That's counter-intuitive, in my opinion; however, it seems to be the current reality.

The raw has a chance at a 10 is why, no?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The raw has a chance at a 10 is why, no?

I suppose that's the rationale.

Still, it seems absurd to me. If I played the grading game, cracking a 9 would seem a better bet than taking chances with Internet images or sub-optimal card show lighting.

Oh well. What do I know? I collect cards, not flips.

(yeah, I know...the flip is the commodity these days)

[jingram058]

Ask the 3rd class passengers on the Titanic how it works. Not much has changed since 1912. Baltic Fox called it right - money talks.

I saw it first hand a few years ago on New Years Eve over in Coral Springs. One of the attorneys my wife worked for (paralegal) held a little hoop tee do in their exclusive cul de sac. He arranged for a flatbed trailer with commercial fireworks. But he didn't give a thought to a permit. Sure enough, Broward County Sheriff's Office showed up, and the 2 deputies walked up to Ronnie and asked to see the permit. Ronnie pulled out his wallet and started pulling out $100 bills. He asked how much does it take to get a permit? At about 6 or 7, the deputies said that will do it, took the money, and drove away.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Seems like just about everyone is in agreement on this one. How about another question, is it just me or does it seem like if you submit 9 commons from XYZ card set to TPG along with a Babe Ruth from the same set, how many times do the 9 commons come back, a couple higher than expected, a couple lower than expected and most right about where expected. How about the Ruth? From my experience, 99.99% of the time comes back lower than expected. Thus, leading me to believe that the “high-end” card(s) gets scrutinized much more closely than the common cards. Others feel the same way?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Seems like just about everyone is in agreement on this one. How about another question, is it just me or does it seem like if you submit 9 commons from XYZ card set to TPG along with a Babe Ruth from the same set, how many times do the 9 commons come back, a couple higher than expected, a couple lower than expected and most right about where expected. How about the Ruth? From my experience, 99.99% of the time comes back lower than expected. Thus, leading me to believe that the “high-end” card(s) gets scrutinized much more closely than the common cards. Others feel the same way?

I haven't looked at Ruth Cards, but have looked at a handful of special cards. And they generally have more lenient grades than commons.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Seems like just about everyone is in agreement on this one. How about another question, is it just me or does it seem like if you submit 9 commons from XYZ card set to TPG along with a Babe Ruth from the same set, how many times do the 9 commons come back, a couple higher than expected, a couple lower than expected and most right about where expected. How about the Ruth? From my experience, 99.99% of the time comes back lower than expected. Thus, leading me to believe that the “high-end” card(s) gets scrutinized much more closely than the common cards. Others feel the same way?

THIS is spot-on. They are waaaaaaaay tougher on the star players. The more that's at stake, the harder you'll get screwed on the grade. Guaranteed.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by perezfan

THIS is spot-on. They are waaaaaaaay tougher on the star players. The more that's at stake, the harder you'll get screwed on the grade. Guaranteed.

This is why when you have a good card a really good one you should go with the higher service level vs sneaking it in budget and trying to get a call for an upcharge.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

THIS is spot-on. They are waaaaaaaay tougher on the star players. The more that's at stake, the harder you'll get screwed on the grade. Guaranteed.

This is completely antithetical to the general consensus of this thread, i.e., that the TPGs are in cahoots with the big AHs and dealers to provide higher grades for their cards. It's the star cards that anybody would want bumped as much as possible due to the incredible market differential
between the grades. So which is it?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

This is completely antithetical to the general consensus of this thread, i.e., that the TPGs are in cahoots with the big AHs and dealers to provide higher grades for their cards. It's the star cards that anybody would want bumped as much as possible due to the incredible market differential
between the grades. So which is it?

Phil said it was a completely different question.

"How about another question,"