Juan Soto -- looking like a bust for the Mets

bk400 · #1 05-22-2025, 08:01 PM

I also think that this "generational" label is being batted around too casually. Soto has had a great career so far, but generational?

In my mind, this generation's only generational players are as follows:

Pujols
Trout
Judge
Ohtani
Kershaw
Verlander
Ichiro

Peter_Spaeth · #2 05-22-2025, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400

I also think that this "generational" label is being batted around too casually. Soto has had a great career so far, but generational?

In my mind, this generation's only generational players are as follows:

Pujols
Trout
Judge
Ohtani
Kershaw
Verlander
Ichiro

I wouldn't put Ichiro on that list, myself. I think the idea on Soto is that he is a generational talent, not that he has achieved enough yet.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 05-22-2025, 09:16 PM

Since it's a card forum, here are my Sotos which are sinking like the Titanic lol.

sbfinley · #4 05-22-2025, 09:49 PM

bk400 · #5 05-22-2025, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Since it's a card forum, here are my Sotos which are sinking like the Titanic lol.

I see your Sotos (nice, btw), and I raise you a Strawberry. The glory days in right field at Shea!

bk400 · #6 05-23-2025, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I wouldn't put Ichiro on that list, myself. I think the idea on Soto is that he is a generational talent, not that he has achieved enough yet.

I see the challenge on Ichiro, but the guy had 10 consecutive years of 200 base hits, which beats the next guy (Wade Boggs at 7 consecutive) by a lot. The only other guy with 10 seasons (non-consecutive) of 200 base hits is Pete Rose. So Ichiro, who came over without the benefit of his early prime years, has a case for being the best contact hitter of two generations of players. Him, Tony Gwynn, and Wade Boggs.

As for the distinction between a generational talent and a generational player, I'll just say that Dwight Gooden was a generational talent and Hank Aaron wasn't. But one was a generational player, while the other wasn't. For me, the generational talent label is a bit meaningless.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 05-23-2025, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400

I see the challenge on Ichiro, but the guy had 10 consecutive years of 200 base hits, which beats the next guy (Wade Boggs at 7 consecutive) by a lot. The only other guy with 10 seasons (non-consecutive) of 200 base hits is Pete Rose. So Ichiro, who came over without the benefit of his early prime years, has a case for being the best contact hitter of two generations of players. Him, Tony Gwynn, and Wade Boggs.

As for the distinction between a generational talent and a generational player, I'll just say that Dwight Gooden was a generational talent and Hank Aaron wasn't. But one was a generational player, while the other wasn't. For me, the generational talent label is a bit meaningless.

It's meaningful until a player has proven he can't live up to it. IMO Soto is not there yet, not even close. Although he may never get another hit at this rate lol.

bk400 · #8 05-24-2025, 01:22 AM

Just when you think the Dodgers have that bed-sh*tting, soul-destroying blown save + long extra inning loss that might sap their confidence a bit, the Mets collectively let them off the hook.

I can't say it was Soto's fault, but he certainly didn't help.

WhatsNext · #9 05-26-2025, 06:52 PM

Such a loser post. He and the Mets are fine.

Statcast has Soto's expected slash line so far at .300/.421/.582 (xOPS of 1.003), compared to his actual line of .233/.363.409. He's just gotten (very) unlucky. Nothing to worry about.

bk400 · #10 05-26-2025, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhatsNext

Such a loser post. He and the Mets are fine.

Statcast has Soto's expected slash line so far at .300/.421/.582 (xOPS of 1.003), compared to his actual line of .233/.363.409. He's just gotten (very) unlucky. Nothing to worry about.

Yes, John1941 made the Statcast point earlier in the thread, which is a good one. This said, if we went by Statcast predictions instead of actual results, Aaron Judge catches that ball in the 5th inning of last year's World Series and Freddie Freeman doesn't hit the grand slam in Game 1. The Knicks don't choke Game 1 last week, and the Pacers don't give away Game 3. The 2007 Patriots beat the Giants and poor Arthur Blank isn't a meme.

And finally, I suppose that if the stakes in one's life are such that making lighthearted, fan-talk posts constitutes loser behavior, then yes, I guess I'm a loser.

John1941 · #11 05-24-2025, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400

I also think that this "generational" label is being batted around too casually. Soto has had a great career so far, but generational?

If getting on base is a talent, Soto is a generational talent. No one else in this generation (and very few in history) can beat him in taking walks and getting on base (with the possible exception of Judge, but Judge is a very different kind of hitter.)

Peter_Spaeth · #12 05-25-2025, 01:58 PM

2 hits, 2 RBI. He's back!!!!

bk400 · #13 05-25-2025, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

2 hits, 2 RBI. He's back!!!!

That's right!! He's back! And anyone who thought Juan Soto was a bum, is a bum.

Peter_Spaeth · #14 05-25-2025, 06:21 PM

And Acuna is finally playing again.

bk400 · #15 05-26-2025, 05:45 AM

You know what I love about Lindor? He's miked up during the game, he talks up his embattled teammate Soto, and he turns an awesome double play.

And Soto? The guy is slumping, but he managed to help win the game with his hustle and defense!

Mets rock. Watch out LA. We're coming for you.

jayshum · #16 05-26-2025, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400

You know what I love about Lindor? He's miked up during the game, he talks up his embattled teammate Soto, and he turns an awesome double play.

And Soto? The guy is slumping, but he managed to help win the game with his hustle and defense!

Mets rock. Watch out LA. We're coming for you.

So he's not a bust any more until his next bad game? Got it.

Balticfox · #17 05-31-2025, 10:17 AM

It's not just Juan Soto though. The Mets are now trying to be like the Yankees and win with their payroll instead of playing good fundamental baseball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOwxfFjVDYE

The Mets should go back to being the anti-Yankees and offer New York baseball fans an alternative instead of an echo.

Peter_Spaeth · #18 05-31-2025, 11:44 AM

He went 2-4 last night. Maybe he's coming out of it. Besides, what player in history (other than maybe Hank Aaron) has not gone through a slump? It's baseball.

A HR and a walk today. Oh ye of no faith.

bk400 · #19 06-10-2025, 10:54 PM

Juan Soto! Looking strong to very strong in June. Good thing we Mets fans never lost faith!

On a potentially related note, I am shocked that the Dodgers are in first place in their division when they basically have one pitcher -- Yamamoto. Granted, he's awesome, but still.

I like the Mets' chances in the post season if Yamamoto and Playoff Kershaw are the best arms. We've got to also hope that Ohtani is rusty and doesn't pull out any of that World Baseball Classic circa 2023 stuff.

Snapolit1 · #20 06-11-2025, 06:11 AM

Shockingly, assessments of a 15 year contract after 3 weeks of play proved to be a tad premature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400

Juan Soto! Looking strong to very strong in June. Good thing we Mets fans never lost faith!

On a potentially related note, I am shocked that the Dodgers are in first place in their division when they basically have one pitcher -- Yamamoto. Granted, he's awesome, but still.

I like the Mets' chances in the post season if Yamamoto and Playoff Kershaw are the best arms. We've got to also hope that Ohtani is rusty and doesn't pull out any of that World Baseball Classic circa 2023 stuff.

bk400 · #21 06-11-2025, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Shockingly, assessments of a 15 year contract after 3 weeks of play proved to be a tad premature.

Yep for sure. But if you're looking for patience, play in the Central Division.

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