Disturbing Confession ...

[jingram058]

There was a thread in the net54 autograph forum a while back stating the overwhelming majority of autographed items are fake. I agree with the above: "What did you see?" "Iceberg, right ahead, sir!"

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by jingram058

There was a thread in the net54 autograph forum a while back stating the overwhelming majority of autographed items are fake. I agree with the above: "What did you see?" "Iceberg, right ahead, sir!"

I suspect the thrust of the thread was “the overwhelming majority of autographed items are fake … except for the ones I buy …..”

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I suspect the thrust of the thread was “the overwhelming majority of autographed items are fake … except for the ones I buy …..”

LOL, isn't that the truth.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I suspect the thrust of the thread was “the overwhelming majority of autographed items are fake … except for the ones I buy …..”

That’s what everyone thinks. I try to buy mostly checks but even that isn’t infallible. There’s just too many Robinsons, Clementes, Aarons, signed vintage cards and sets, that suddenly pop up in every auction in the hundreds every month. Did collectors who owned them not realize they had value until recently and were hiding them, refusing to sell them?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by calvindog

That’s what everyone thinks. I try to buy mostly checks but even that isn’t infallible. There’s just too many Robinsons, Clementes, Aarons, signed vintage cards and sets, that suddenly pop up in every auction in the hundreds every month. Did collectors who owned them not realize they had value until recently and were hiding them, refusing to sell them?

The avalanche of signed Goudeys from obscure players that suddenly all surfaced at once in the past 3-4 years was particularly ridiculous.

Lots of 80 year olds (or their heirs) woke up one day and found the same stash of signed Goudeys. Remarkable.

[Fandom0610]

Unfortunately this hobby is filled with greed and its only getting worse. The damage has already been done. At this point unless you personally see the player sign the item I wouldnt feel comfortable buying any modern player auto.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by fandom0610

at this point unless you personally see the player sign the item i wouldn’t feel comfortable buying any modern player auto.

+ 💯

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Fandom0610

Unfortunately this hobby is filled with greed and its only getting worse. The damage has already been done. At this point unless you personally see the player sign the item I wouldnt feel comfortable buying any modern player auto.

I don't really understand the allure of modern autograph collecting...most modern sigs aren't signatures at all. They're lines...or squigglies. Most are unintelligible as signatures.

[Snapolit1]

Quite a few players appear to be illiterate. And/or just don't give a shit. Modern baseball and basketball . . . . signatiures are a joke. Many guys now just do their initials. I've even seen one initial as a signatue.

[Fandom0610]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I don't really understand the allure of modern autograph collecting...most modern sigs aren't signatures at all. They're lines...or squigglies. Most are unintelligible as signatures.

Exactly. Its just a quick scribble or sloppy initial. Theres a few modern players I would be interested in collecting but technology and fakes are getting better every year so who knows what I'm really buying. And if I had any I would never feel 100% certain I had the real thing unless I was there to get the signature.

This problem is only going to get worse. Theres too much money to be made with all these celebrities, "influencers", and kids entering the hobby.

[bleeckerstreetcards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

That’s what everyone thinks. I try to buy mostly checks but even that isn’t infallible. There’s just too many Robinsons, Clementes, Aarons, signed vintage cards and sets, that suddenly pop up in every auction in the hundreds every month. Did collectors who owned them not realize they had value until recently and were hiding them, refusing to sell them?

of course the occam's razor and logical answer here is that the prices have gone up in the last 3 years, so people are more willing to sell than ever before. they are now often one of the central focal points of many auction catalogs (post-war section) and 10 yrs ago would be buried in the back pages or put in lots.

it is not reasonable to assume that forgers are now passing the most scrutinized and high value autographed cards by Keating/PSA and auction house experts. it is also important to note that most auctions that showcase a significant amount of signed cards are due to consigners who were graphers/TTMers in the 50s and 60s that are now ready to part with them, or have passed on and the collections have been consigned by descendants. i have been personally involved in 4 such cases.

yes, i know what my signature says and the old tagline "no conflict, no interest". FWIW this ring has been primarily focused on modern stars (Judge, Gretzky, Brady, etc.) so they can sell high volume into high demand markets through ebay and online stores, not the best of the best in auctions.

[ruth-gehrig]

A bit more detail

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/b...008C7489478H2S

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jingram058

There was a thread in the net54 autograph forum a while back stating the overwhelming majority of autographed items are fake. I agree with the above: "What did you see?" "Iceberg, right ahead, sir!"

There have been several of those threads in the 10+ years I have been on here. Then the bigger auto collectors and sellers always come on and say don't worry it isn't true most autographs are real.

I find it funny all the people saying that is why I stayed away from autographs when the same exact thing is and has been going on in the card world. If you think fake slabs aren't a HUGE thing, LOL, good luck with that. The grading companies adding pics of graded cards anyone can lookup has greatly helped. At least now you can't crack a newly graded card and put that flip and a lower grade card into a newly made slab without everybody knowing the card is different.

There is a fake copy of pretty much everything made being. I hear southeast Asia is a good place to find those items or find someone that will make them for you.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bnorth

There have been several of those threads in the 10+ years I have been on here. Then the bigger auto collectors and sellers always come on and say don't worry it isn't true most autographs are real.

I find it funny all the people saying that is why I stayed away from autographs when the same exact thing is and has been going on in the card world. If you think fake slabs aren't a HUGE thing, LOL, good luck with that. The grading companies adding pics of graded cards anyone can lookup has greatly helped. At least now you can't crack a newly graded card and put that flip and a lower grade card into a newly made slab without everybody knowing the card is different.

There is a fake copy of pretty much everything made being. I hear southeast Asia is a good place to find those items or find someone that will make them for you.

I remember some very smart, great, fantastic beautiful collector calling the Sports Card Hobby one big "Billion Dollar Fraud many years ago and was laughed and sloughed off. Especially when he called it a "Multi-Billion Dollar fraud". Facts are Facts...The posts AGED really well with every fly by night new company, breaking to go broke mystery fudge packs, Fake patches, fake relics and of course, the heart of it ALT today. Fake Autographs.

[bnorth]

Since every thread needs a picture here is a very accurately graded card from PSA. Please ignore the extreme diamond cut. Honestly I am impressed they got it to fit in the slab.

[packs]

I’m trying to understand the signed card aspect to this. Are they saying they manipulated certified autographs too? That seems difficult since they carry pre-printed identifiers that the card is an autograph insert as opposed to an after market signed card, which would seem easier to manipulate.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by packs

I’m trying to understand the signed card aspect to this. Are they saying they manipulated certified autographs too? That seems difficult since they carry pre-printed identifiers that the card is an autograph insert as opposed to an after market signed card, which would seem easier to manipulate.

I'll guess we'll know if they ever make the evidence they impounded public or if it's just a large stack of Jerseys, Helmets, Hats, Balls, Bats and 8x10's.

Maybe he was getting his exemplars for his autopen from legitimate certified autographs, maybe he was just blowing a lot of wind into the air. I don't know.

I also think he got a lot of satisfaction out of spewing "estimated values" for fake autographs that were essentially worthless. In today's aspirational society, he wanted to be able to say he ran a "Billion $" business through nothing but grit, determination and hustle...and who gives a shit who got hurt by him along the way.

[scooter729]

Slightly off-track, but worthy of sharing I thought.....

One of the hottest prospects in baseball right now is Roman Anthony, who was recently called up to the Red Sox. My kids had an opportunity last week to spend some time at batting practice on the field and meeting the players, one of which was Anthony. He was very nice and signed a few things for them.

I don't collect modern cards (other than to buy a few for the kids to get signed last week), so I wasn't familiar with Anthony's autograph. There are tons of his signed cards on eBay, and the signature on all of those looks like what you see in the first pic - an illegible squiggle. These players likely are signing hundreds (or likely, thousands) of cards for the companies at a time, so the autograph becomes a quick scribble to get through the massive pile they need to sign.

Now compare that to the two cards he signed for my kids. Not exactly Williams or DiMaggio, but totally legible.

I'm the first to squawk about how players don't take pride in their signatures any more, but after seeing the different versions Anthony used and considering the vast quantities they likely have to sign, it did make me think about it a bit differently for a bit.....

[Brent G.]

I look forward to law enforcement’s pics of the seized goods. A whole lot of dealers sure aren’t.

[aljurgela]

In the off case that i am collecting autographs...

And a few vintage baseballs...

I have a few modern autos, but most were obtained in person or pack pulled from the major card companies. I would still think that most of those are legit... but who knows.

[BioCRN]

Autograph evolution happens, especially in this era where players/people are paid to sign 1000s of cards.

Sometimes it takes a step forward, sometimes it takes a step back. A lot of guys will have various signatures depending on the era they're signing.

Derniche Valdez 2023 vs 2024 auto...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/317080243218
https://www.ebay.com/itm/226761140850

...and here's a reality check for why some people have those sloppy scribble autos. We're losing Andre Dawson and Mariano Rivera level autographs for scribbles because of things like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j8F3_rKCU8

[D. Bergin]

This guy sounds like an absolute psychopath.

The glee and total lack of remorse in how he describes his destructive behavior.

Somehow he ends it thinking he's the hero in exposing the seedy underbelly of the hobby, seemingly not aware that HE'S the seedy underbelly.

Throws in lots of self-aggrandizement and self-mythologizing for the inevitable Netflix documentary that's going to help "immortalize" him, whether he's still with us or not.

I wonder how many in his circle will describe him as "A Good Guy" or "A misunderstood genius", or any other number of positive platitudes to normalize his scumbaggery.

[Snapolit1]

Sounds like possibly he might be a dead guy at this point, if I am following this correctly.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

This guy sounds like an absolute psychopath.

The glee and total lack of remorse in how he describes his destructive behavior.

Somehow he ends it thinking he's the hero in exposing the seedy underbelly of the hobby, seemingly not aware that HE'S the seedy underbelly.

Throws in lots of self-aggrandizement and self-mythologizing for the inevitable Netflix documentary that's going to help "immortalize" him, whether he's still with us or not.

I wonder how many in his circle will describe him as "A Good Guy" or "A misunderstood genius", or any other number of positive platitudes to normalize his scumbaggery.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Sounds like possibly he might be a dead guy at this point, if I am following this correctly.

Might possibly be...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Since every thread needs a picture here is a very accurately graded card from PSA. Please ignore the extreme diamond cut. Honestly I am impressed they got it to fit in the slab.

I would argue it's not diamond cut (which means, to me the corners aren't 90 degrees) but rather the image on the back is tilted.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I would argue it's not diamond cut (which means, to me the corners aren't 90 degrees) but rather the image on the back is tilted.

I think I agree, but shouldn't that still preclude it from grading 9?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I would argue it's not diamond cut (which means, to me the corners aren't 90 degrees) but rather the image on the back is tilted.

Originally Posted by Mark17

I think I agree, but shouldn't that still preclude it from grading 9?

LOL, Scott I have bragged about your card descriptions before so please put you glasses back on and look again as it is diamond cut and not just a little.

EDIT: I added a square cornered red line to the image to help.

[egri]

Originally Posted by bnorth

There have been several of those threads in the 10+ years I have been on here. Then the bigger auto collectors and sellers always come on and say don't worry it isn't true most autographs are real.

I find it funny all the people saying that is why I stayed away from autographs when the same exact thing is and has been going on in the card world. If you think fake slabs aren't a HUGE thing, LOL, good luck with that. The grading companies adding pics of graded cards anyone can lookup has greatly helped. At least now you can't crack a newly graded card and put that flip and a lower grade card into a newly made slab without everybody knowing the card is different.

There is a fake copy of pretty much everything made being. I hear southeast Asia is a good place to find those items or find someone that will make them for you.

I suspect many of the people saying that wouldn't bat an eyelash at prewar cards that are 5s or above, and I'm skeptical. Jefferson Burdick's collection is full of rounded corners, creases, paper loss, and discoloration, and he was collecting as the cards came out. Either he was stepping over flawless examples to pick up damaged ones, or many of the prewar cards in high-graded slabs today have had work done.