Disturbing Confession ...

[aljurgela]

In the off case that i am collecting autographs...

And a few vintage baseballs...

I have a few modern autos, but most were obtained in person or pack pulled from the major card companies. I would still think that most of those are legit... but who knows.

[BioCRN]

Autograph evolution happens, especially in this era where players/people are paid to sign 1000s of cards.

Sometimes it takes a step forward, sometimes it takes a step back. A lot of guys will have various signatures depending on the era they're signing.

Derniche Valdez 2023 vs 2024 auto...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/317080243218
https://www.ebay.com/itm/226761140850

...and here's a reality check for why some people have those sloppy scribble autos. We're losing Andre Dawson and Mariano Rivera level autographs for scribbles because of things like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j8F3_rKCU8

[nolemmings]

The use of Sharpies doesn't help matters. Way too wide so that the letters become indecipherable. Here is one of Harmon Killebrew, who had one of the most beautiful signatures I have ever seen (not mine):

[Fandom0610]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I don't really understand the allure of modern autograph collecting...most modern sigs aren't signatures at all. They're lines...or squigglies. Most are unintelligible as signatures.

Exactly. Its just a quick scribble or sloppy initial. Theres a few modern players I would be interested in collecting but technology and fakes are getting better every year so who knows what I'm really buying. And if I had any I would never feel 100% certain I had the real thing unless I was there to get the signature.

This problem is only going to get worse. Theres too much money to be made with all these celebrities, "influencers", and kids entering the hobby.

[jchcollins]

Geez, what kind of drugs was that guy on?

I’m sure at least part of that is true and that is precisely why the only autos I’ve ever given a damn about are ones I get in person, or on the rare occasions in my hobby career where I decide to do TTM runs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Same here. Always a signed Fleer Jordan hitting the market, Jackies, Mantles, etc. How many of these are actually real ??

How many 1933 Goudey Gehrig's and Ruth's have hit the market recently? All the sudden people found these in their collections that were handed down and wondered if these guys' cards were worth something?

I never trusted this space of the hobby. Nor the game used area. Cards are bad enough but signed and game used requires more suspension of disbelief than I can muster up.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If I understand this, and I probably don't, the opinion sellers were bypassed. These fakes were created by auto pen, then had fake authentication holograms/stickers/whatever type of certs added.

So, no, that's another sad thing besides the corpse. The opinion sellers didn't make a profit from this.

Oh, then that is double sadness.

But don't people who buy things with certs/holos/etc then usually get them opinionated because the slab is a good way to keep the item protected?

[packs]

I still have a lot of practical questions about this confession.

If you make a fake LOA sticker and cert for a major retailer in the hobby, it is easy to search for it in the LOA database and see it's not there. I always check but I guess some people don't. Even people who are paying thousands of dollars for somebody like Brady, apparently.

Autopen is not magic. It should be fairly easy to distinguish it from a real signature, even when looked at by someone who is not an "expert". It's not all that different from distinguishing between a xerox and a live document. It's hard to imagine so many LOAs being issued for what are said to be autopen signatures.

[bleeckerstreetcards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

That’s what everyone thinks. I try to buy mostly checks but even that isn’t infallible. There’s just too many Robinsons, Clementes, Aarons, signed vintage cards and sets, that suddenly pop up in every auction in the hundreds every month. Did collectors who owned them not realize they had value until recently and were hiding them, refusing to sell them?

of course the occam's razor and logical answer here is that the prices have gone up in the last 3 years, so people are more willing to sell than ever before. they are now often one of the central focal points of many auction catalogs (post-war section) and 10 yrs ago would be buried in the back pages or put in lots.

it is not reasonable to assume that forgers are now passing the most scrutinized and high value autographed cards by Keating/PSA and auction house experts. it is also important to note that most auctions that showcase a significant amount of signed cards are due to consigners who were graphers/TTMers in the 50s and 60s that are now ready to part with them, or have passed on and the collections have been consigned by descendants. i have been personally involved in 4 such cases.

yes, i know what my signature says and the old tagline "no conflict, no interest". FWIW this ring has been primarily focused on modern stars (Judge, Gretzky, Brady, etc.) so they can sell high volume into high demand markets through ebay and online stores, not the best of the best in auctions.

[ruth-gehrig]

A bit more detail

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/b...008C7489478H2S

[Fandom0610]

Originally Posted by packs

I still have a lot of practical questions about this confession.

If you make a fake LOA sticker and cert for a major retailer in the hobby, it is easy to search for it in the LOA database and see it's not there. I always check but I guess some people don't. Even people who are paying thousands of dollars for somebody like Brady, apparently.

Autopen is not magic. It should be fairly easy to distinguish it from a real signature, even when looked at by someone who is not an "expert". It's not all that different from distinguishing between a xerox and a live document. It's hard to imagine so many LOAs being issued for what are said to be autopen signatures.

From what ive seen most don't have LOA's with the item picture on it. Theyre simply just the psa/jsa/panini stickers on the item. Some might have a coa but what theyre doing is finding a legit item certified by psa or jsa and copying that cert # onto another sticker and putting it on the item. Alot of items dont have the picture of the item on the database. It'll just say "Kobe bryant 8x10" on the psa or jsa website. So as long as that item is a Kobe signed 8x10 with the same cert # nobody would know because theres no picture to reference.

[pawpawdiv9]

I thought this was the OP’s confession that he sits in a small room smelling his 100yr old tobacco cards

[4815162342]

Confirmation: Autograph dealer identified as man found dead in Indiana raid of fake memorabilia

https://www.cllct.com/sports-collect...ke-memorabilia

[homerunhitter]

I bet eBay will have ALOT of new listings in the next few weeks as people will be dumping their items on eBay to get rid of them! After all of this, Why would anyone want anything with a TPA authentication sticker on it? And let’s not get started on fake slabs! That’s another can of worms! Buckle up, this hobby is above to hit a shit storm in regards to fake items in our hobby! Time to get the popcorn ready!

[raulus]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

I bet eBay will have ALOT of new listings in the next few weeks as people will be dumping their items on eBay to get rid of them! And let’s not get started on fake slabs! That’s another can of worms!

Would the authenticity guarantee process catch the fake slabs for anything sold over $250? Or do we think that the fake slabs are so well executed that they would slip right through?

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by raulus

Would the authenticity guarantee process catch the fake slabs for anything sold over $250? Or do we think that the fake slabs are so well executed that they would slip right through?

My opinion is I think they are so well executed that they would slip by. But I could be wrong. Makes me want to sell all of my PSA slabs right now because we Just don’t know anymore with the way the Fraud and scammers are hitting the hobby right now.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Would the authenticity guarantee process catch the fake slabs for anything sold over $250? Or do we think that the fake slabs are so well executed that they would slip right through?

It depends on if someone is trying to make the slabs in their garage with Plexi glass and a hammer and chisel or have access to real machinery. Nothing against anyone's job but printing cards and molding plastic are jobs that can easily be done by former or future McDonalds employees. I have friends that have worked in both fields and a couple of them are great people but dumb as a post. For example people make fake Rolex watches. The $200 models will fool anyone who doesn't really know watches. The $500 models will fool many Rolex owners and the $1200 models are so good you can actually swap out parts between a real and counterfeit ones. But yes molding plastic or printing simple pictures is near impossible to replicate. It amazes me every single day this hobby hasn't crashed and burned from all the corruption that openly runs rampant.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by raulus

Would the authenticity guarantee process catch the fake slabs for anything sold over $250? Or do we think that the fake slabs are so well executed that they would slip right through?

I don't recall seeing anything in this that mentions slabbed autographs; it only talks about faked autographs and counterfeit holograms/stickers.

It sounds to me that it involves non-slabbed items, where there's only a hologram/sticker on the item to "certify authenticity".

Steve

[egri]

Originally Posted by bnorth

There have been several of those threads in the 10+ years I have been on here. Then the bigger auto collectors and sellers always come on and say don't worry it isn't true most autographs are real.

I find it funny all the people saying that is why I stayed away from autographs when the same exact thing is and has been going on in the card world. If you think fake slabs aren't a HUGE thing, LOL, good luck with that. The grading companies adding pics of graded cards anyone can lookup has greatly helped. At least now you can't crack a newly graded card and put that flip and a lower grade card into a newly made slab without everybody knowing the card is different.

There is a fake copy of pretty much everything made being. I hear southeast Asia is a good place to find those items or find someone that will make them for you.

I suspect many of the people saying that wouldn't bat an eyelash at prewar cards that are 5s or above, and I'm skeptical. Jefferson Burdick's collection is full of rounded corners, creases, paper loss, and discoloration, and he was collecting as the cards came out. Either he was stepping over flawless examples to pick up damaged ones, or many of the prewar cards in high-graded slabs today have had work done.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

The sort of items he sold seem to be the ones I would see and immediately think, that's fake. It's almost like junk wax the amount of signed jerseys, 8x10 generic dime color photos, footballs, baseballs, large oversized "art". You see with superstar Autographs at low tier auctions and many shows.

Those booths have always just been instant passes because I just have never trusted them.

I feel like the amount of framed jerseys especially, all framed the exact same way all in the exact same layout and style all with perfect autos all using super low quality chinese jerseys was a dead giveaway.

Again, I think it’s all about this market right here. These sellers are neck deep in modern + the biggest names of the past 50 years, especially all-time level QBs and wrestlers. I’ve seen wayyy too many JSA, Tristar, and Fanatics stickers on cheap bagged and framed items to make sense. Anyone who’s been to a show has. It’s like in ‘98 when dealers had stacks of McGwire and Sosa but they’d barely signed anything.