Judge or Raleigh for MVP?

[bk400]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

I could look past batting average if Raleigh were an on-base machine, but his OBP is only .354. And if you're inclined to look at WAR, he's actually behind teammate Julio Rodriguez.

The MVP race shouldn't even be close.

Depends on which WAR. In fWAR, Raleigh is right behind Judge and Ohtani and has 2.7 more wins than Julio Rodriguez.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bk400

Depends on which WAR. In fWAR, Raleigh is right behind Judge and Ohtani and has 2.7 more wins than Julio Rodriguez.

Judge has a 44 point margin in OPS+. Let's get real.

[packs]

Judge has an OPS+ over 200. It can’t be emphasized enough. That is incredibly difficult to do and you can’t not give him the MVP after he does it again. That’s Ted Williams, Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx territory. He leads the league in batting average, on base, slugging, OPS, OPS+ and total bases. He’s insane.

[bk400]

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to Judge winning, especially as he seems to putting on the gas these last few games.

I'm somewhat skeptical of the WAR stats myself, but understand that voters care. I mean, Ohtani's fWAR actually increased by 0.2 after he got torched for 4 earned runs in one inning a few starts ago.

As far as OPS+, I get conceptually what it means, but if someone can explain to me why that stat is robust, I'd appreciate it. It strikes me as one of those stats where they try to translate what balls hit at certain speeds and at certain angles would do in certain ball parks. Which kindly feels like a bunch of guys sitting around playing a Dungeons and Dragons version of a baseball season.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Judge has a 44 point margin in OPS+. Let's get real.

so playing catcher doesn't enter into it for you at all, just hitting?

[packs]

Positional dominance does matter but as I pointed out Salvador Perez led the league in both categories as recently as 2021 and finished 7th. Raleigh has more home runs but I don’t think that makes him the MVP over Judge, who is dominating the league in every other offensive category. Since I don’t think Raleigh is a Pudge level catcher on top of his offense I think his case rests largely on his bat. And I think Judge has the superior bat.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

so playing catcher doesn't enter into it for you at all, just hitting?

Not if he is getting points just for being a catcher, no. Is he an elite catcher like Bench or Rodriguez, if so I'd give him a few points I guess, but I have not heard that said of him.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not if he is getting points just for being a catcher, no. Is he an elite catcher like Bench or Rodriguez, if so I'd give him a few points I guess, but I have not heard that said of him.

He did win a gold glove last year.

[icurnmedic]

If he wins another gold glove, that kind of changes the narrative. As far as Judge fatigue, I think it is both real and undeserved. He is nothing short of a class act producer on the field. I too never would have thought a .240 average would put you in the mvp conversation.

Side note: my first trip to NYC , first Yankee game on Tuesday, seen Judge go yard. It was awesome!

[bk400]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

Side note: my first trip to NYC , first Yankee game on Tuesday, seen Judge go yard. It was awesome!

That's pretty sweet! Did you take the subway to the game? That can be a fun, uniquely unifying experience also.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by jayshum

He did win a gold glove last year.

He not only won a gold glove, he was the AL Platinum Glove winner.

[D. Bergin]

These guys are making it tough to pick. Both on fire down the stretch with Raleigh closing in on Judge’s AL Record with 4 games left to play.

Meanwhile Judge becomes the 1st Non-Peds guy since Ruth to hit 50+ 4 Times in his career.

Judge has the Offensive Analytics and WAR metric heavily in his favor, and Raleigh has the traditional power numbers, offensive catcher records, and a reputation as a stellar defensive catcher (even though the metrics don’t quite agree for this year) in his favor.