Judge or Raleigh for MVP?

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't see how you can be so dazzled by home runs. Judge leads the league in every other offensive stat and put up a 215 OPS+. That's a Ted Williams-level season.

Hmm, Ted's best season was likely 1941 when he hit over .400 and led the league in HRs. He did not win the MVP-- that went to Dimaggio. A never before 56 game hit-streak no doubt helped Joe, but so did the fact that he was a better fielder.

Raleigh did something never done before by a catcher-- the 60 Home runs-- and the 125 RBis are noteworthy too. He played almost 30% more games in the field than Judge-- 121 to 95-- at a much, much more demanding position that also required him to usually call pitches and field general the infield, and played defensively at least as well. FWIW, he even stole more bases than Judge.

I'd give it to Cal.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Hmm, Ted's best season was likely 1941 when he hit over .400 and led the league in HRs. He did not win the MVP-- that went to Dimaggio. A never before 56 game hit-streak no doubt helped Joe, but so did the fact that he was a better fielder.

Raleigh did something never done before by a catcher-- the 60 Home runs-- and the 125 RBis are noteworthy too. He played almost 30% more games in the field than Judge-- 121 to 95-- at a much, much more demanding position that also required him to usually call pitches and field general the infield, and played defensively at least as well. FWIW, he even stole more bases than Judge.

I'd give it to Cal.

Fun tidbit though... Judge would have to go 0 for his next 184 to match Cal's batting average this year.

[packs]

Ted’s best season was 1946 when he led the league in runs, walks, batting average, OPS, OPS+, and total bases but not home runs or RBI’s. He won MVP with an OPS+ of 215.

Sound familiar?

Judge also became only the fourth player and really only the second player to Babe Ruth to have four 50 homer seasons this year. He is the MVP.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by packs

Ted’s best season was 1946 when he led the league in runs, walks, batting average, OPS, OPS+, and total bases but not home runs or RBI’s. He won MVP with an OPS+ of 215.

Sound familiar?

Judge also became only the fourth player and really only the second player to Babe Ruth to have four 50 homer seasons this year. He is the MVP.

Well I see you don’t really offer an argument as to why Teddy Ballgame failed to win the MVP in 1941. I believe the answer is because the voters believed someone else had a more special season, and did something that had not been done before that year.

As for Ted’s best season, in 1941 he topped the A.L. in every category you just listed for 1946 except total bases, PLUS HRs AND B.A. (he did not win B.A. in 1946), in addition to reaching the magical .400 mark. He also had better OPS, OPS+ and Offensive War in 1941 than he did in 1946. So I cannot agree that ‘46 was better than ‘41 where again he did not win. The reason he won the MVP in 1946? In large part because no one else stood out as having done something unprecedented that season to top Ted's raw numbers. Unlike this year, when a catcher hit more HRs than ever before (by 7) and reached the esteemed 60 total HR mark.

As for Judge hitting 50 Hrs for the fourth time, good for him, but MVP is about this season only, so your reference is of marginal value at most.

Vote Raleigh.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Judge's WAR is 2.5 higher. There's really nothing to discuss here, although of course Raleigh is the hip/cool/contrarian/anti Yankee choice.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Judge's WAR is 2.5 higher. There's really nothing to discuss here, although of course Raleigh is the hip/cool/contrarian/anti Yankee choice.

Depends on which WAR. If you use fWAR, which apparently captures catcher framing, Cal is only 1.0 win behind Judge and only 0.3 behind Ohtani.

The fact that different versions of WAR can yield such different results leads me to believe that WAR shouldn't be the be all and end all, particularly if you are a journalist who actually watches the game, as opposed to being the proverbial 400-pound guy in New Jersey who sits at his computer and just models the game in a statistical vacuum.

How many people can actually explain the components of a WAR calculation in any level of detail?

I was actually thinking that catchers may not get enough of a premium -- don't they have to prepare for opposing hitters in a way that is analogous to how starting pitchers need to prepare for opposing hitters? Doesn't that, plus the obvious physical and mental demands of the position, make them more akin to pitchers than to, say, right fielders?

[rand1com]

Raleigh is a good story. Judge is the MVP. Not even close!

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Fun tidbit though... Judge would have to go 0 for his next 184 to match Cal's batting average this year.

...and he just might in the Playoffs.

Judge has the old Kershaw reputation in the Post Season.
Can't hit, .205 in 58 games!!! And we saw his lovely defense in the 5th inning of WS Game 5.

Let's see if he turns it around or continues his futility.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

...and he just might in the Playoffs.

Judge has the old Kershaw reputation in the Post Season.
Can't hit, .205 in 58 games!!! And we saw his lovely defense in the 5th inning of WS Game 5.

Let's see if he turns it around or continues his futility.

I'm hoping Judge has a great post season. I felt bad for him when he dropped the fly ball last year. He doesn't deserve to be known for that.

[packs]

I do hope Judge turns his postseasons around but it’s a good thing we have the king of October in Stanton.

[frankbmd]

Give him a break.

Judge was just trying to emulate Snodgrass, whose dropped a fly ball in the 1912 World Series, and is still remembered for it.

Do any of you remember that Snodgrass also became the mayor of Oxnard after his playing days?

What's more important just another MVP for Judge or immortality?

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by packs

I do hope Judge turns his postseasons around but it’s a good thing we have the king of October in Stanton.

I'm a diehard Red Sox fan, so I'm rooting for Judge to strike out every time up in humiliating fashion. He's still the regular season MVP.

I'm also hoping Stanton reverts back to his 2023 form.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by packs

I do hope Judge turns his postseasons around but it’s a good thing we have the king of October in Stanton.

How'd the King do?

[packs]

Drove in four runs against Toronto. Judge hit 600 against them.

Everyone on the Mets didn’t play an inning.

[TUM301]

Raleigh is the MVP for me. Good arguments on both sides, and yes had checked out Ted’s 1941 stats about 2 weeks ago. Judge/Yankee fatigue might be coming into play but 60 bombs and leading the league in RBI for a division winning team from behind the plate 120 times, unheard of. In MLB History I think only 3 or 4 catchers had previously hit more than 40 HR’s. Here in Sox nation getting ready for Sox-Yanks in about 1 hour, should be as good as ever.

[rowdy3]

Raleigh