Ohtani or Ruth?

[tycobb]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Well, you would have a point that I could more easily agree with except for the pressure ramps up in a no-hitter, while it arguably ramps down when a team is on a roll, beating the crap out of another team in a best of seven series.

“Beating the crap” ? As a fan i never felt they were doing that in the series but that’s just me.


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[Tomi]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I'd like to see teams and players going back to those things.



Poor Mick. Imagine how tough it is to fight hangovers day-after-day just to be ready to play a game where you're sitting in a dugout almost half the time and just standing there most of the rest of the time.

Forget the hangovers and other self inflicted issues, the guy played his whole career on a partially torn ACL and countless other injuries.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by packs

(Ruth) wasn’t the best pitcher in the league

Neither is Ohtani, but the Babe was 87-45 from 1915 thru 1919 plus 3-0 in the World Series in an era of one round of post season games, not the current four.

He also hit 49 home runs in that five year dead ball span, which sounds better when you find out that the rest of Red Sox line up combined hit another 40.


None of us can possibly comprehend an era where a single player, starts game 1 of the World Series with a complete game shutout, takes the win in game 4, and would have pitched again in game 7 (so obviously is the team's ace), then hits 29 home runs the next year (cue Yanks interest followed by the complete and total mindset of how baseball is played) while the rest of his teammates combined to hit...

Wait for it...

3



Ohtani is amazing, I get it, but come on, as I said in my initial post to this thread :

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I would have voted "neither".

They both exist in different dimensions with their own gravitational rules.

We mere mortals are lucky that we are allowed to witness them.

PS - I love Fred's Godzilla / King Kong analogy

[Beercan collector]

.. And Godzilla was undefeated in Godzilla vs King Kong movies (1-0-1)
Original King Kong was only 24 feet tall - Godzilla 160+.
Also King Kong was a little messed up in the head ..

[BobbyStrawberry]

Interesting that, despite all the folks arguing for Ohtani, the poll is over 2 to 1 in favor of Ruth.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Interesting that, despite all the folks arguing for Ohtani, the poll is over 2 to 1 in favor of Ruth.

It was 3-1 yesterday so the Ohtani votes are closing the gap. The youngsters (under50) must be voting.

[Carter08]

Ruth hit three home runs in a playoff game. Twice.

[tycobb]

Some younger cats perspective on the clinching game .

https://youtu.be/Z17YL_G3wKQ?si=Y40B_noc8TYfdZ1S


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[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Ruth hit three home runs in a playoff game. Twice.

Did he pitch 6 scoreless innings while allowing 2 hits and strike out 10 in either of those games. Otherwise, no comparison.

[Beercan collector]

They were World Series games, Ohtani has done virtually nothing in the World Series including pitching

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Did he pitch 6 scoreless innings while allowing 2 hits and strike out 10 in either of those games. Otherwise, no comparison.

Just fyi from AI regarding pitching. Babe Ruth had a 3-0 record with a 1.80 ERA in his 29.2 consecutive scoreless innings in the World Series, a record that stood for 43 seasons. He pitched 29 2/3 consecutive scoreless innings, including 13 shutout innings in Game 2 of the 1916 World Series and a complete 9 innings in Game 1 of the 1918 World Series. He pitched 22 innings in the 1916 World Series, and pitched 7.1 innings in Game 2 of the 1918 World Series, which also included a shutout inning that extended his record to 29.2

[lumberjack]

Johnny Weissmuller (Tarzan) won five Olympic golds back in the twenties; he never lost a race. Never lost a race.

Stay with me....

Today, female swimmers have demolished all of his best times. It's been that way for a long while.

This is fun, you know, could Mohammad Ali beat Batman in a street fight, but whatever the sport, you can't compare one moment in time to another.

Are today's athletes better conditioned, of course. I don't particularly like the way baseball is played today, but the one constant remains: score one more run than the other guys and if you gotta change your approach, so be it.

[tycobb]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Just fyi from AI regarding pitching. Babe Ruth had a 3-0 record with a 1.80 ERA in his 29.2 consecutive scoreless innings in the World Series, a record that stood for 43 seasons. He pitched 29 2/3 consecutive scoreless innings, including 13 shutout innings in Game 2 of the 1916 World Series and a complete 9 innings in Game 1 of the 1918 World Series. He pitched 22 innings in the 1916 World Series, and pitched 7.1 innings in Game 2 of the 1918 World Series, which also included a shutout inning that extended his record to 29.2

Ah if only any one of us could have been around to see and feel this would have been cool. As a fan of today’s baseball i bet it would have been great. Guessing something just like the Dodgers game couple nights ago !


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[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Just fyi from AI regarding pitching. Babe Ruth had a 3-0 record with a 1.80 ERA in his 29.2 consecutive scoreless innings in the World Series, a record that stood for 43 seasons. He pitched 29 2/3 consecutive scoreless innings, including 13 shutout innings in Game 2 of the 1916 World Series and a complete 9 innings in Game 1 of the 1918 World Series. He pitched 22 innings in the 1916 World Series, and pitched 7.1 innings in Game 2 of the 1918 World Series, which also included a shutout inning that extended his record to 29.2

Did he also hit 3 home runs in any of those games?

I don't need AI to bet against it.

The combination of the two feats in the same game set Ohtani apart like it or not.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

They were World Series games, Ohtani has done virtually nothing in the World Series including pitching

He has only played in one World Series so far, and he was recovering from elbow surgery, oh and he dislocated his shoulder in the playoffs. So of course he hasn't pitched in a World Series...yet.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Babe Ruth had a 3-0 record with a 1.80 ERA in his 29.2 consecutive scoreless innings in the World Series....

Hmmmm. A feat so astonishing that it's seemingly impossible.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Just fyi from AI regarding pitching. Babe Ruth had a 3-0 record with a 1.80 ERA in his 29.2 consecutive scoreless innings in the World Series, a record that stood for 43 seasons. He pitched 29 2/3 consecutive scoreless innings, including 13 shutout innings in Game 2 of the 1916 World Series and a complete 9 innings in Game 1 of the 1918 World Series. He pitched 22 innings in the 1916 World Series, and pitched 7.1 innings in Game 2 of the 1918 World Series, which also included a shutout inning that extended his record to 29.2

Quoting AI should be banned completely, and not reading what AI says before you quote it instantly causes any valid opinions you might have to be tinted by your AI based claims that 29.2 scoreless innings somehow gives a pitcher a 1.80 ERA

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by lumberjack

This is fun, you know, could Mohammad Ali beat Batman in a street fight

For a split second I thought you said Bartman

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

.. And Godzilla was undefeated in Godzilla vs King Kong movies (1-0-1)
Original King Kong was only 24 feet tall - Godzilla 160+.
Also King Kong was a little messed up in the head ..

According to AI King Kong was only 12 feet tall in the original movie.

Not sure how he held Fay Wray in his hand if he was only twice as tall as me, although maybe she was a munchkin...

checking...



Nope, not a munchkin, although AI says that it's a common misconception that she was.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Quoting AI should be banned completely, and not reading what AI says before you quote it instantly causes any valid opinions you might have to be tinted by your AI based claims that 29.2 scoreless innings somehow gives a pitcher a 1.80 ERA

His actual stats are pretty impressive. 3-0 with a 0.87 ERA. AI is coming whether folks on the forum want it to or not. Sorry to break the news.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Carter08

His actual stats are pretty impressive. 3-0 with a 0.87 ERA. AI is coming whether folks on the forum want it to or not. Sorry to break the news.

You're right that AI is coming, but a lot of what it told you was wrong. He only pitched 14 innings in the 1916 World Series not 22.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by jayshum

You're right that AI is coming, but a lot of what it told you was wrong. He only pitched 14 innings in the 1916 World Series not 22.

Completely agree

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by Tomi

He's a full time DH. Let Ohtani play the field everyday and put mileage on his body and see where his numbers go. Mays and Ruth easily.
Judge is a better hitter than Ohtani. A .282 lifetime average and people want to compare him to Ruth. No one was a better hitter than Ruth when he played.

Where would he have played in the field without the DH after his surgery? Would he have done a Rico Carty and played in the outfield and threw the ball underhanded? Anyone remember that?

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Did he also hit 3 home runs in any of those games?

I don't need AI to bet against it.

The combination of the two feats in the same game set Ohtani apart like it or not.

Against an overrated team with 1/3 the payroll.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by jakebeckleyoldeagleeye

Against an overrated team with 1/3 the payroll.

Hard to call the Brewers overrated when they had the best record in baseball during the season.

[theshowandme]

The 2025 Brewers pitchers would probably no hit the 1927 Yankees multiple times in a 7 game series

[tycobb]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Hard to call the Brewers overrated when they had the best record in baseball during the season.

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[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Carter08

AI is coming whether folks on the forum want it to or not. Sorry to break the news.

I'm perfectly fine with AI.

What I have a problem with is people who treat the info it gives them as if it were facts, when it is actually easily dis-proven drivel.

We all use the interwebs for facts that we use in this and other conversations, but some of us do a better job than others of fact checking what we find before we put it in our posts.

Doug "AI told me that I am not Shaquille O'Neill" Goodman

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I'm perfectly fine with AI.

What I have a problem with is people who treat the info it gives them as if it were facts, when it is actually easily dis-proven drivel.

We all use the interwebs for facts that we use in this and other conversations, but some of us do a better job than others of fact checking what we find before we put it in our posts.

Doug "AI told me that I am not Shaquille O'Neill" Goodman

K. You get a cookie for fact checking hard before posting on a baseball card forum.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Carter08

K. You get a cookie for fact checking hard before posting on a baseball card forum.

No asshole, I get the cookie for not being a dick.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

No asshole, I get the cookie for not being a dick.

And if you have so little respect for this forum, or any conversation that you are having probably, that you think fact checking is bad thing then so be it. Blocked.

Doug "my middle name is Dick" Goodman

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

According to AI King Kong was only 12 feet tall in the original movie.

Not sure how he held Fay Wray in his hand if he was only twice as tall as me, although maybe she was a munchkin...

checking...



Nope, not a munchkin, although AI says that it's a common misconception that she was.

C’mon now ... AI fan �� edit: Please don’t block me

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why? Yes there is the whole overlay of baseball being white only, but at the same time with so far fewer teams, and no other major sports to siphon off great athletes, there was arguably more concentrated talent then, no?

No. 1920, there were 16 teams of 23-25 guys in a country with a population just over 100 million and no players from outside the US and no non-white players. In 2025, the population is 342 million. To have the same proportion of players, you'd need to have 46-48 teams instead of 30. And that's not even accounting for non-white and Non-American players now competing for spots.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

C’mon now ... AI fan �� edit: Please don’t block me

I have no current plans to block you Eric. Insert smiley face here.


I'm not opposed to AI at all, I'm opposed to idiots using it.

Similar to I appreciate the existence cars, but some people shouldn't be allowed to drive them.


And yes I'm calling you an idiot Carter08, most recent addition to my blocked list. Be aware that every time you post in a thread that I am reading instead of seeing your post I will see this message "This user is on your Ignore List." and it will make me smile.

Doug "smiling at this moment" Goodman

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

No. 1920, there were 16 teams of 23-25 guys in a country with a population just over 100 million and no players from outside the US and no non-white players. In 2025, the population is 342 million. To have the same proportion of players, you'd need to have 46-48 teams instead of 30. And that's not even accounting for non-white and Non-American players now competing for spots.

But ... but ... men were MEN in those days and players today are a bunch of pussies who are laid up by a hangnail.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by Tomi

I would love to see players of today deal with the issues of the players of yesterday. Imagine if they had to work jobs in the off season. Buses and trains to games instead of planes.

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I'd like to see teams and players going back to those things.

What is happening in this thread

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

What is happening in this thread

We're just being smartasses. Don't take this stuff too seriously.

[icurnmedic]

Personally from literally across the country, I dislike the fact that he is pitching again. He is amazing as even a blind man can see, but he is one pitch from potentially being irrelevant. That folks, is something no fan deserves.

[bk400]

And a card! Ohtani's first Japanese rookie card. The back is kind of cool -- talks about his manager in Japan, Hideki Kuriyama, whom Ohtani later credits for giving him the opportunity to flourish as a two-way star. Also some highlights from the big high school championships in Japan.

[Snapolit1]

Folks are entitled to their opinions, no matter how stupid they might be. Hell, I've met a few people in my life who have seriously maintained that The Beatles were overrated.

[Balticfox]

Yeah. Mickey Mantle, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson/Jordan and Taylor Swift are all far more overrated than the Beatles.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Tomi

We're just being smartasses. Don't take this stuff too seriously.

And some of us just roll our eyes when we see how present day entertainers including professional athletes are pampered.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

If they let Wes Ferrell play the field he would be the only guy worthy of being discussed in Ohtani's league and Ohtani beats him in talent in both areas by a mile.

Smoky Joe Wood coming in at a distance 3rd, maybe Don Newcombe in the area...unless some of the Negro League guys are liked a bit better (I'm not that familiar)...

Don Newcombe was a great hitter who Walter Alston would sometimes use as a pinch hitter.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Yeah they did, but they were Yakuza.

Doug, I want to assure you that I was not a member of the Yakuza when I lived in Japan. My lack of tattoos and full number of digits would substantiate me.

[jacksons]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

The 2025 Brewers pitchers would probably no hit the 1927 Yankees multiple times in a 7 game series

This isn’t really debatable. I’m sure Yelich would also struggle hitting a dirty emery ball in the 6th inning with no stadium lights and a 40-48oz bat.

Maybe the way to compare Ruth and Ohtani is more about how dominant they were in their eras, compared to their peers. Was anyone even close to what Ruth was doing? Is anyone even close to what Ohtani is doing? I give Ruth the edge in this context.

[jacksons]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Ohtani.

Ask yourself this question: how many players either today or throughout history can throw the ball at 100 mph, shutout a good team for 6 innings, and then hit a home run out of the stadium?

Answer: 1

But why should this single game performance by Ohtani be the measuring stick? I’m confused. Ohtani is a tremendous talent obviously that has been primarily a DH and unfortunately for all of us, has not been able to throw to the best of his ability consistently due to injury, either as a defender or a pitcher. Hes one of the greatest of the modern era for sure. But Game 4 of the 2025 NLCS isn’t why.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Hard to call the Brewers overrated when they had the best record in baseball during the season.

Not just hard but very clearly wrong.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by rats60

Ohtani may not even be the best player in the game today. Aaron Judge is a much better hitter, OPS+ 179 to OPS+ 160. Judge is a plus defender, Ohtani is a no defender.

Has Shohei Ohtani played any position other than DH or pitcher in MLB? Is he really that bad a position player?

[Fandom0610]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yeah. Mickey Mantle, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson/Jordan and Taylor Swift are all far more overrated than the Beatles.

Now thats funny. Michael Jackson/Jordan more overrated than the Beatles???? Whatever youre smoking get off of it now!

[BioCRN]

If Ohtani played in the past they'd stick him in RF/LF depending on how much they value his arm and would play a boring OF, maybe a bit below average at worst.

He's fast. He's got a great arm (accurate and fast). He's playing DH out of team preference.

Let's not pretend he is absolutely incapable of playing passable defense. We've got plenty of tape seeing him do it in Japan and his legs are just fine. There's video you can watch yourself.

He's an all-star quality pitcher. He's an all-star quality hitter. He has no peer, now or historic that's on his level.