News About Auctions That Will Affect All Of Us

[barrysloate]

It's apparent that even prestigious auction houses are not doing their due diligence to determine whether or not certain items are real. There are so many knock off and downright counterfeit items in the marketplace that something like this doesn't surprise me. Of course, all he is entitled to is a refund, and maybe if he's lucky an apology. Suing for $7 million is ridiculous. I too am glad he lost.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's apparent that even prestigious auction houses are not doing their due diligence to determine whether or not certain items are real. There are so many knock off and downright counterfeit items in the marketplace that something like this doesn't surprise me. Of course, all he is entitled to is a refund, and maybe if he's lucky an apology. Suing for $7 million is ridiculous. I too am glad he lost.

While I agree that it was WAY over the top to sue for 7m, I also think it lets the auction house off the hook a little too easily regarding the due diligence issue - There needs to be some level of responsibility greater than simply giving a refund when a buyer happens to find out an item is not what they bought it as - IF an auction house wanted to take the "risk" of misrepresenting items and only have to refund the buyers that find out, it seems that the "reward" would far outweigh the "risk". I think some type of standard should be set - 1.5x the final bid refund? - that would act as some level of true "risk" for misrepresented items.

my 2 cents.

[calvindog]

Due diligence? Comeon. If annyone has been keeping score lately, auction houses basically get away with whatever they can -- until they're caught. Even when the auction houses are caught they don't 'fess up. I remember earlier this year in Goodwin's auction he had a Cobb card listed as the only one graded by SGC. I proceeded to post my own, identical, SGC-graded card on the board. Slippery Bill immediately banned me from his auction -- but never changed the false 1 of 1 population claim in his listing.

Has anyone ever seen an industry in which such a large percentage of the population has either: been in prison, are about to be in prison or belong in prison? Auction house principals rest comfortably with the understanding that there are simply not enough prosecutorial resources to indict all of the bad guys in the hobby.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Due diligence? Comeon. If annyone has been keeping score lately, auction houses basically get away with whatever they can -- until they're caught. Even when the auction houses are caught they don't 'fess up. I remember earlier this year in Goodwin's auction he had a Cobb card listed as the only one graded by SGC. I proceeded to post my own, identical, SGC-graded card on the board. Slippery Bill immediately banned me from his auction -- but never changed the false 1 of 1 population claim in his listing.

Has anyone ever seen an industry in which such a large percentage of the population has either: been in prison, are about to be in prison or belong in prison? Auction house principals rest comfortably with the understanding that there are simply not enough prosecutorial resources to indict all of the bad guys in the hobby.

In principal - agreed. So how do we "out" these guys that take advantage of all the unwilling victims? Does this need to be brought up with the FBI investigators looking at Mastro? Would it be safe to presume that they are looking at other auction houses as well? I know I ended up with a refund check a few years ago from Sotheby's who along with a couple of other VERY high profile auction houses were accused of unfair trade practices when there was apparent collusion in setting their buyer's premium. I also know there have been a couple of times with major houses where I am 98% certain in hindsight I was "bidding against myself".

[Leon]

Originally Posted by hcv123

In principal - agreed. So how do we "out" these guys that take advantage of all the unwilling victims? Does this need to be brought up with the FBI investigators looking at Mastro? Would it be safe to presume that they are looking at other auction houses as well? I know I ended up with a refund check a few years ago from Sotheby's who along with a couple of other VERY high profile auction houses were accused of unfair trade practices when there was apparent collusion in setting their buyer's premium. I also know there have been a couple of times with major houses where I am 98% certain in hindsight I was "bidding against myself".

I have a feeling the FBI investigates whomever they think is committing fraud. I think it's safe to say ALL auction houses get looked at. I also think it's safe to say that what gets put on this board probably gets read by an investigator or two.... regards

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by hcv123

In principal - agreed. So how do we "out" these guys that take advantage of all the unwilling victims?

Whatever you do, don't point it out here (unless it's a small-timer on eBay or the B/S/T, then it's OK to go after them with both barrels blazing). But if it's a major auction house that's guilty of questionable practices, you'll find a parade of board members ready to march in defense whenever questions are raised.

[calvindog]

Obviously Rob is right. The ones that defend the certain auction house crooks can be divided into two categories: a) the hobbyists who are co-conspirators; or b) those too dopey to recognize the most obvious of frauds. I had an email exchange with a hobbyist the other night who in the most vociferous manner was certain that some of the most obvious fraud ever seen in an auction was just not that statistically significant. Of course, that I deal with fraudsters and fraud every day of my career was lost on this imbecile. But of course if an ebayer rips off a board member for $20 we'll get a three page thread with everyone in agreement as to how bad that fraud was.

[drc]

What has struck me in the past are collectors who complain about a fraudulent auction house then bid or consign in their auctions.