News About Auctions That Will Affect All Of Us

hcv123 · #1 12-24-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Due diligence? Comeon. If annyone has been keeping score lately, auction houses basically get away with whatever they can -- until they're caught. Even when the auction houses are caught they don't 'fess up. I remember earlier this year in Goodwin's auction he had a Cobb card listed as the only one graded by SGC. I proceeded to post my own, identical, SGC-graded card on the board. Slippery Bill immediately banned me from his auction -- but never changed the false 1 of 1 population claim in his listing.

Has anyone ever seen an industry in which such a large percentage of the population has either: been in prison, are about to be in prison or belong in prison? Auction house principals rest comfortably with the understanding that there are simply not enough prosecutorial resources to indict all of the bad guys in the hobby.

In principal - agreed. So how do we "out" these guys that take advantage of all the unwilling victims? Does this need to be brought up with the FBI investigators looking at Mastro? Would it be safe to presume that they are looking at other auction houses as well? I know I ended up with a refund check a few years ago from Sotheby's who along with a couple of other VERY high profile auction houses were accused of unfair trade practices when there was apparent collusion in setting their buyer's premium. I also know there have been a couple of times with major houses where I am 98% certain in hindsight I was "bidding against myself".

Leon · #2 12-24-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcv123

In principal - agreed. So how do we "out" these guys that take advantage of all the unwilling victims? Does this need to be brought up with the FBI investigators looking at Mastro? Would it be safe to presume that they are looking at other auction houses as well? I know I ended up with a refund check a few years ago from Sotheby's who along with a couple of other VERY high profile auction houses were accused of unfair trade practices when there was apparent collusion in setting their buyer's premium. I also know there have been a couple of times with major houses where I am 98% certain in hindsight I was "bidding against myself".

I have a feeling the FBI investigates whomever they think is committing fraud. I think it's safe to say ALL auction houses get looked at. I also think it's safe to say that what gets put on this board probably gets read by an investigator or two.... regards

Rob D. · #3 12-24-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcv123

In principal - agreed. So how do we "out" these guys that take advantage of all the unwilling victims?

Whatever you do, don't point it out here (unless it's a small-timer on eBay or the B/S/T, then it's OK to go after them with both barrels blazing). But if it's a major auction house that's guilty of questionable practices, you'll find a parade of board members ready to march in defense whenever questions are raised.

calvindog · #4 12-24-2009, 10:29 PM

Obviously Rob is right. The ones that defend the certain auction house crooks can be divided into two categories: a) the hobbyists who are co-conspirators; or b) those too dopey to recognize the most obvious of frauds. I had an email exchange with a hobbyist the other night who in the most vociferous manner was certain that some of the most obvious fraud ever seen in an auction was just not that statistically significant. Of course, that I deal with fraudsters and fraud every day of my career was lost on this imbecile. But of course if an ebayer rips off a board member for $20 we'll get a three page thread with everyone in agreement as to how bad that fraud was.

drc · #5 12-25-2009, 12:09 AM

What has struck me in the past are collectors who complain about a fraudulent auction house then bid or consign in their auctions.

calvindog · #6 12-25-2009, 07:38 AM

Exhibit A: collectors who are only struck by the fact that collectors still bid in crooked auctions despite the fact that most if not all auctions are crooked. Why be struck by the fact that fraud is rampant when you can furrow your brow and deeply contemplate (in the most scholarly manner, of course) why people would choose to add to their collections with no alternative in sight? Blaming the victim is a convenient way to avoid discussing the bigger problem.

Leon · #7 12-25-2009, 08:30 AM

I just don't buy the sentiment that ONLY our BST fraudsters get berated. Those aren't the facts but I guess anyone can believe what they want to. For the record I think all fraud should be exposed but certain individuals on this board go way overboard on conspiracy theories. That being said anyone, auction house or otherwise, that commits fraud should be outed, punished and taken to task....and this board is a fine place to do it. We really need, and for the most part (imo) have, equal rights on the board.

BTW, I am guilty of bidding in almost all auctions....so let the accusations and sarcasm continue.

Rob D. · #8 12-25-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I just don't buy the sentiment that ONLY our BST fraudsters get berated. Those aren't the facts but I guess anyone can believe what they want to. For the record I think all fraud should be exposed but certain individuals on this board go way overboard on conspiracy theories. That being said anyone, auction house or otherwise, that commits fraud should be outed, punished and taken to task....and this board is a fine place to do it. We really need, and for the most part (imo) have, equal rights on the board.

BTW, I am guilty of bidding in almost all auctions....so let the accusations and sarcasm continue.

Leon,

I didn't say only B/S/T and eBay sellers get berated. Jeff has done a pretty fine job calling out the big boys. That indeed is quite factual.

My point is that quite often there are a ton of folks ready to pounce when the guilty party is a small-timer. For gosh sakes, a seller had his personal information posted at the top of a thread on the main board, where it remained for days after the transaction in question had been completed. A transaction, by the way, that was for less than $200.

However, when the party in question is a big auction house, the tendency is for the masses to either clam up or rush to the big boys' defense.

If you want to debate that point, feel free. A quick search of previous threads might cause you not to. I'm not sure you should take it personally — it's not like the discussion is about overprints on the backs of candy cards — but that's certainly your right.

Happy holidays.

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