T206 "Brown" Old Mill Southern League Back...Legit?

[quinnsryche]

Oddly enough there is a new one for sale on ebay right now. I don't know how to link ebay stuff on here so maybe a "techie" could do that please. The # is 400105595192. It's a Helm SGC A (which the seller explains brown Old Mills were hand cut hence the A grade - is that true?). Oh, it's also 10K. Someone please comment on that also if you would.
Thanks!

[barrysloate]

There has always been a debate regarding the Lenox and Old Mill cards over whether there is a brown version, or merely the black ink faded. There are in fact genuine brown variations, but you need to look at the backs closely to spot them. And in both cases, the brown is quite rare.

[DixieBaseball]

You should not get clobbered for your observation as it it a keen one. There have been a legion of folks for years that have thought the brown back is a off shade of black. There are folks on both sides of this argument... I have seen a few of these with my naked eye and I have never been convinced they are in fact brown. The ones I have seen look to be faded black, soft black, or possibly brownish-light black tone. I do believe there are different shades of the black which actually look more brown than black, but simply believe there was a few that got out the door that were "off black."

[JerryTotino]

I have owned 2 examples of a Brown Old Mill back and they are easily identified when you see them in person. They are not faded black as most collectors may think. All the examples I am aware of are hand cut. Thus, I believe these backs were never meant to be issued, but rather were a mistake and/or an experiment.

Jerry

[drdduet]

Agree with Jerry.

They are legit, just very rare. Most collectors who have not seen a legit brown Old Mill in person speculate at some point that maybe they are just faded black versions...as I did once upon a time. But once you see an authentic brown Old Mill and compare it to a faded black version there is no question. The problem is in finding an authentic brown one.

[Joshchisox08]

Are all the Browns graded Authentic ? I just won a Jack Bastian (FINALLY!) with an Old Mill Southern Back and obviously I want to believe it be the brown variation. Other than being poorly cut at the top of the card there's no tears missing paper or anything and it's still graded just Authentic. When I get the card in person I'll send you guys a pic so you can let me know what you think.

The difference between a $57 card or a $1,430 card haha. Either way I'm happy that I paid under it's value but would obviously like it to be the brown back, just not sure.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Are all the Browns graded Authentic ? I just won a Jack Bastian (FINALLY!) with an Old Mill Southern Back and obviously I want to believe it be the brown variation. Other than being poorly cut at the top of the card there's no tears missing paper or anything and it's still graded just Authentic. When I get the card in person I'll send you guys a pic so you can let me know what you think.

The difference between a $57 card or a $1,430 card haha. Either way I'm happy that I paid under it's value but would obviously like it to be the brown back, just not sure.

Good luck...but not likely its brown?

[JerryTotino]

Josh,

Yes all Brown Old Mills were hand cut.

If you post a scan when you have it that would be very helpful in confirming.

I have owned 3 examples over the years so I have a good idea of what it should look like.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Pat R]

Bastian was no print Hindu which would make it a no print with a Brown
Old Mill this one does have a brownish look to it like some other regular
southern Old Mills.

[JerryTotino]

Josh,

An example of a Brown Old Mill:

Sid_Smith_Brown_Old_Mill_back001.jpg

Jerry

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Are all the Browns graded Authentic ? I just won a Jack Bastian (FINALLY!) with an Old Mill Southern Back and obviously I want to believe it be the brown variation. Other than being poorly cut at the top of the card there's no tears missing paper or anything and it's still graded just Authentic. When I get the card in person I'll send you guys a pic so you can let me know what you think.

The difference between a $57 card or a $1,430 card haha. Either way I'm happy that I paid under it's value but would obviously like it to be the brown back, just not sure.

Josh, it's not $1,430 for a Brown OM. It's more like $10-15,000.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Oddly enough there is a new one for sale on ebay right now. I don't know how to link ebay stuff on here so maybe a "techie" could do that please. The # is 400105595192. It's a Helm SGC A (which the seller explains brown Old Mills were hand cut hence the A grade - is that true?). Oh, it's also 10K. Someone please comment on that also if you would.
Thanks!

Link as requested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=400105595192






In this case the grading company is solid. The seller is solid. I have no idea on the price. As mentioned, they're pretty rare so it's hard to find comparisons.

[frankb22]

Is it true that the brown backs were all hand cut?

[DixieBaseball]

Guys - I do see the difference and have seen a handful of these over the years. I am still not convinced they are not a off color of black, with some serious fading, or botched black... There is definitely a difference in the colors and yes, it looks like a different shade from the black, but it is not appear to me to be a true brown color. It looks faded to me. Always has... I know there is a lot of difference of opinion on these... I certainly respect everyone's opinion on it, but I don't think we will ever definitively know... Also, I don't believe these are all handcut as indicated. I have seen examples that don't appear to be handcut, but cut from factory in normal process.