List of known Red HINDU's....can you add any new ones ?

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Read the thread.

If you had searched "red Cobb red Hindu" in the search function you could have easily found it yourself.

Instead you link to a recent auction, that was thoroughly discussed and attack Ted's credibility.

THAT...
is why we have what you call a "lynchmob mentality" We have already talked about it, but you wave it like it's new.

Just read the 4 pages of that thread. There is nothing conclusive about Ted's assertion that the card isnt real. It may be re-backed, it may be legit. What I get from Ted's argument is that because he has never seen, in person, a Cobb with a Hindu back, they must not exist. Im not too sure i'd subscribe to that theory. Someone dropped 38 large on that card. I tend to think that the guy who spends that type of money may know something about what he is buying. Ted offered conjecture, hypothesis, and his opinion. The other guy offered a year's worth of the average person's salary. Furthermore, since that very public sale occured about 3 years ago, dont you think it would be known by now if the card was indeed altered?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Just read the 4 pages of that thread. There is nothing conclusive about Ted's assertion that the card isnt real. It may be re-backed, it may be legit. What I get from Ted's argument is that because he has never seen, in person, a Cobb with a Hindu back, they must not exist. Im not too sure i'd subscribe to that theory. Someone dropped 38 large on that card. I tend to think that the guy who spends that type of money may know something about what he is buying. Ted offered conjecture, hypothesis, and his opinion. The other guy offered a year's worth of the average person's salary. Furthermore, since that very public sale occured about 3 years ago, dont you think it would be known by now if the card was indeed altered?

That "very public sale" occured on May 03, 2009, not quite a year ago. The thread I linked was from last January, BEFORE the REA catalog came out.

I don't know if Ted's right or not. That's not my point. The important thing is he's put a lot more thought and effort into tracking T206 than you ever will. Show some manners. He offered a lot more than conjecture.

And the first thing I learned in the high end of this hobby is that there is always someone with more money than you could imagine, who are willing to drop $38,000 on a card they think is rare.

It's not always about who has the most money. They are not always the smartest. Money doesn't always trump everything else. Hell, I heard the owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks dropped $2.8 million on a trimmed card.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Just read the 4 pages of that thread.

Did you know you can adjust your settings in the User CP to allow up to 80 posts per page instead of the preset number of 10?

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Did you know you can adjust your settings in the User CP to allow up to 80 posts per page instead of the preset number of 10?

I do now....thanks for the tip. 10 replies always seemed a bit short to start a new page!

[ullmandds]

"Let me try to learn something now. If the card has been in existence for at least 11 years (back to Mastro's sale) how in the world has such a high profile card escaped detection as being an altered piece? Is it just that each new owner spends mega bucks for it, then locks it away in denial....afraid to have it examined for genuine authenticity? I cannot understand this. What are your thoughts?"

Hey Chi-Town...are you familiar with the famous gretzky Wagner...psa graded 8? Talk about spending mega bucks...on an altered card! My thoughts are that many people have high grade...potentially altered, holdered cards in their collection. What good would it serve them to have them deemed altered/overgraded...and obviously quite less valuable? Surely a man with such an interest in finance can understand this?

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

"Let me try to learn something now. If the card has been in existence for at least 11 years (back to Mastro's sale) how in the world has such a high profile card escaped detection as being an altered piece? Is it just that each new owner spends mega bucks for it, then locks it away in denial....afraid to have it examined for genuine authenticity? I cannot understand this. What are your thoughts?"

Hey Chi-Town...are you familiar with the famous gretzky Wagner...psa graded 8? Talk about spending mega bucks...on an altered card! My thoughts are that many people have high grade...potentially altered, holdered cards in their collection. What good would it serve them to have them deemed altered/overgraded...and obviously quite less valuable? Surely a man with such an interest in finance can understand this?

I guess my biggest concern is this...How does Ullmandds, and presumably most of the members here know this information, but the guys who continue to spend mega bucks dont have a clue as to what they are buying??? How is such a "well known secret" kept when the hammer falls at auction?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

I guess my biggest concern is this...How does Ullmandds, and presumably most of the members here know this information, but the guys who continue to spend mega bucks dont have a clue as to what they are buying??? How is such a "well known secret" kept when the hammer falls at auction?

Peter and I both asked about this card. Are you aware of the story behind it? It's going to be displayed in Cooperstown this year. MLB is happy. The HOF is overjoyed. The current owner is pretty proud. (Psst! It's hand cut from a sheet and trimmed. Don't tell!)

[Chicago206]

Do you feel the Gretzky party knew the card was sheet cut? Was that fairly common knowlege prior to the 2.8 million bid it realized? If the answer to both of these is "yes", then the market has deemed this type of alteration to be "market acceptable". However, I dont think it will ever be "market acceptable" to re-back a card....especially a card that may not have ever been printed in the first place!

So Jim...if it were your Cobb/RH, would you take all steps needed to validate/dismiss its authenticity? Or would you take the "head buried in the sand" approach?

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Just read the 4 pages of that thread. There is nothing conclusive about Ted's assertion that the card isnt real. It may be re-backed, it may be legit. What I get from Ted's argument is that because he has never seen, in person, a Cobb with a Hindu back, they must not exist. Im not too sure i'd subscribe to that theory. Someone dropped 38 large on that card. I tend to think that the guy who spends that type of money may know something about what he is buying. Ted offered conjecture, hypothesis, and his opinion. The other guy offered a year's worth of the average person's salary. Furthermore, since that very public sale occured about 3 years ago, dont you think it would be known by now if the card was indeed altered?

*

I definitely agree with your statement about Ted.
Ted is a nice guy, but he actually feels that if he doesn't see the card, it doesn't exist.
Facts, and anyones word is NOT good enough ... in his mind ... his assumptions, speculations and theories ... rises above all of that.

Maybe it went unoticed by his followers, but it was only two to three years ago that he discovered the Doyle error card.
Prior to that, outside of Larry Fritsch, the collecting world knew about the the Doyle error since 1987 ... Larry knew about it since 1980.

Until someone hit him between the eyes about the Doyle error card ... he was talking it down like he's doing to the Red Hindu Cobb.

If you notice, Ted will make statements about Bowmen cards ... but when it comes to tobacco cards ... they're mostly assumption, speculations and theories ... and when he makes a careless mistake ... he gets nailed ... this time by a newbie .