I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

botn · #1 05-22-2010, 11:28 AM

If Tim is correct, that the Naps uniforms did not have the black collar in 1911 and color was not added to the T202 photo, then the player sliding could not be Shoeless. He played the last 20 games of the 1910 season with Cleveland and only 2 of those games were against the White Sox and the games were in Chicago. No way the image used on the T202 was from 1912...

Chris-Counts · #2 05-22-2010, 11:48 AM

While I am a big fan of the uniform data base, I have found some inconsistencies, so I wouldn't take it as the definitive word. I would think 1st generation photos that are dated would be the best bet for determining the year. At some point, a print of the image will turn up ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by botn

If Tim is correct, that the Naps uniforms did not have the black collar in 1911 and color was not added to the T202 photo, then the player sliding could not be Shoeless. He played the last 20 games of the 1910 season with Cleveland and only 2 of those games were against the White Sox and the games were in Chicago. No way the image used on the T202 was from 1912...

e107collector · #3 05-22-2010, 01:40 PM

If you look at the T202's "Good Play at Third" & "Baker gets his Man," there is a Cleveland Player shown in the center panel of each.

Does anyone know whick Cleveland player is shown. Maybe it's the same one in question?

I posted links below.

Thanks,
Tony

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=13476

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=13460

SethY · #4 05-22-2010, 01:48 PM

I think the "Baker gets his man" card has the best chance of those two in being Jackson in the picture.

sreader3 · #5 05-22-2010, 03:02 PM

Here's another 1911 picture of Joe, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker from the Addie Joss Benefit game (Cobb lost his Tiger uni and is wearing Cleveland instead). Note that Jackson's right "sock" is white to about mid-shin.

I found another 1911 photo of Jackson scoring at League Park. Once again, the white right "sock" to mid-shin appears.

I'm thinking the T202 is Jackson.

botn · #6 05-22-2010, 03:17 PM

Does anyone have access to an archive for box scores from 1911 from the Cleveland Plain Dealer? I checked the online archives for the New York Times and while they have box scores they do not address the caught stealing stat. Would the Sporting News have anything? Here is an example from the NYT online archive from the game between Naps and White Sox on May 5th. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...639C946096D6CF

Cleveland hosted Chicago on the following dates in 1911:

5/3-5/6
6/28-7/1
9/4 for a doubleheader

barrysloate · #7 05-22-2010, 03:24 PM

Greg- did you check Retrosheet, which is linked to this site? I'll take a look now.

Just checked- no box scores for 1911. Some years just have line scores.

botn · #8 05-22-2010, 01:58 PM

I am going to see if I can do a little research on the box scores which include a play by play for the games played in Cleveland against Chicago in 1911. Caught stealing is a stat which was tracked. There were 10 Cleveland home games against Chicago in 1911.

The Cleveland player in the Baker Gets His Man does look similar to the player in the Lord Catches His Man.

SethY · #9 05-22-2010, 02:04 PM

When would Cleveland be playing Philadelpia?

botn · #10 05-22-2010, 02:15 PM

This is from an image on the Blackbetsy site...Taken at the Addie Joss Benefit Game on July 24, 1911 and Shoeless has the inner black collar.

botn · #11 05-22-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SethY

When would Cleveland be playing Philadelpia?

Cleveland hosted Philadelphia A's 11 times in 1911.

sreader3 · #12 05-22-2010, 02:24 PM

In the photo posted in the preceding post Jackson's right sock is WHITE up to about mid-shin, whereas the right sock of the Cleveland player on his left is DARK all the way to the pantline. The same appears true in the T202 of interest--the sliding Cleveland player's right sock is WHITE up to about mid-shin. Or am I missing something?

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