I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

tbob · #1 05-25-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

Paul earlier made a nice point about reasonable doubt. So - here is a thought experiment. Assume that sllding into 3rd base is a serious felony, punishible by a lengthy prison sentence, perhaps even death. The witnesses to the event in question have all died or mysteriously vanished. All we have is the image from the card.

JJ is arrested. Should he be convicted based on that image?

Mark- Paul's point about reasonable doubt as used in a courtroom proceeding is erroneous so I wouldn't use that as a basis for any argument. In Paul's defense he is not an attorney and admitted he thought he read somewhere about the definition of reasonable doubt, which is incorrect.

tbob · #2 05-25-2010, 10:26 PM

Now if the JJ case was a civil case, I think a jury could find the Plaintiff (Brett) has established his case by a preponderance of the evidence.

bmarlowe1 · #3 05-25-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbob

Mark- Paul's point about reasonable doubt as used in a courtroom proceeding is erroneous so I wouldn't use that as a basis for any argument. In Paul's defense he is not an attorney and admitted he thought he read somewhere about the definition of reasonable doubt, which is incorrect.......Now if the JJ case was a civil case, I think a jury could find the Plaintiff (Brett) has established his case by a preponderance of the evidence.

I wasn't using Paul's point at all as the basis for what I said - and I don't think his stated percentage is the criterion for reasonable doubt. I did think his comment was pointed in the right direction. The point I made stands on it's own. If you're on the jury in a criminal case, how do you vote?

Abravefan11 · #4 05-25-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

If you're on the jury, how do you vote?

Mark you know I have the up most respect for you and your methods, but given what I see in comparing the newspaper photo and the T202 image I would find JJ guilty.

calvindog · #5 05-25-2010, 10:50 PM

I think what Bob is asking is whether the jury is watching a civil or criminal trial. If it were me, I'd vote on a civil case that it is Jackson; on a criminal case I'd vote no, that the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt has not been met.

mark evans · #6 05-25-2010, 10:57 PM

I concur with Jeff, but really don't see the analogy to legal disputes. Would love to buy the card. Until this thread, it was probably affordable.

Abravefan11 · #7 05-25-2010, 11:10 PM

Comparing the newspaper photo provided by Greg to the T202 image is not the same process in my opinion as comparing a cabinet photo to a studio photo. In this case we're not comparing facial features such as ears, jaw lines, eye sets, etc. The similar positions of the players bodies without any distinctive deviation leads me to believe we are seeing the same event in both photos.

Edited to add: Could Joe have slid into third and Lord have fielded the ball with Joe sliding in the same pose while Lord assumed the same stance and applied the tag while both maintained concurrent body positions throughout the play....yes. I wouldn't bet against it though.

perezfan · #8 05-25-2010, 11:18 PM

I am surprised that more has not been made of the base itself. It is obviously the same exact base in both photos. The shading and shadowing are identical... if I knew how to circle these identical portions in red, I would do it. Perhaps someone with better technical skills can assist?

The base indicates that both photos were taken during the same game. If nobody else was thrown out at third in this particular game, I believe you have your answer. Can that statistic be researched?

Abravefan11 · #9 05-25-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

I am surprised that more has not been made of the base itself. It is obviously the same exact base in both photos. The shading and shadowing are identical... if I knew how to circle these identical portions in red, I would do it. Perhaps someone with better technical skills can assist?

The base indicates that both photos were taken during the same game. If nobody else was thrown out at third in this particular game, I believe you have your answer. Can that statistic be researched?

The base was #3 in my post above.

botn · #10 05-25-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

I am surprised that more has not been made of the base itself. It is obviously the same exact base in both photos. The shading and shadowing are identical... if I knew how to circle these identical portions in red, I would do it. Perhaps someone with better technical skills can assist?

The base indicates that both photos were taken during the same game. If nobody else was thrown out at third in this particular game, I believe you have your answer. Can that statistic be researched?

I posted this earlier today on post #243. www.botn.com/images/CPD050611.jpg

According to the play by play not many Cleveland players even reached 2nd base in the game. Only 4 hits, 1 BB and 1 throwing error by Chicago resulted in yielding 1 run for Cleveland.

Abravefan11 · #11 05-25-2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by botn

I posted this earlier today on post #243. .

Sorry Greg I missed that.

perezfan · #12 05-26-2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by botn

I posted this earlier today on post #243. www.botn.com/images/CPD050611.jpg

According to the play by play not many Cleveland players even reached 2nd base in the game. Only 4 hits, 1 BB and 1 throwing error by Chicago resulted in yielding 1 run for Cleveland.

Right... I know that both you and Tim astutely commented on the third base bag... nobody else seemed to want to acknowledge it.

I was stating that I couldn't believe more was not made of the fact that it is unquestionably from the same game. Other factors throughout this thread have been analyzed/argued/nitpicked to death (i.e. angles, wrinkles, sideburns, leg wraps and collars to name just a few). But nobody seemed to expound on or acknowledge the importance of the base being the same in both photos. To me, this is the most important factor, as it is the only easily identifiable subject in the photo that's static.

If indeed nobody else was thrown out at third in this particular contest, the case would appear to be closed.

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