I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

[Peter_Spaeth]

At least Barkman's assholishness was tinged with humor. This guy just appears to be an asshole, period.

[brett]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At least Barkman's assholishness was tinged with humor. This guy just appears to be an asshole, period.

Maybe so, but at least I'm an asshole who just contributed something pretty big to the hobby. I can't tell you how many private messages I've gotten from people who told me not to worry about all the doubters who are just jealous that a first time poster came on here and added something much greater than you probably ever will.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by brett

Maybe so, but at least I'm an asshole who just contributed something pretty big to the hobby

Move over Jefferson Burdick

[Abravefan11]

If anyone is still interested in discussing the photo I would like to repeat a question that Paul asked earlier.

"Forget for a minute the identity of the player sliding into 3rd base. I think the pertinent question now is:
Were these two photos taken a split second apart? If the evidence indicates they are photos from the same play at third, then we know the baserunner is the same in both photos."

For those that sill aren't sure if the photo is Joe, do you doubt that these two photos were taken during the same play on the same day?

Don't worry I won't call you an idiot if you disagree with me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

If anyone is still interested in discussing the photo I would like to repeat a question that Paul asked earlier.

"Forget for a minute the identity of the player sliding into 3rd base. I think the pertinent question now is:
Were these two photos taken a split second apart? If the evidence indicates they are photos from the same play at third, then we know the baserunner is the same in both photos."

For those that sill aren't sure if the photo is Joe, do you doubt that these two photos were taken during the same play on the same day?

Don't worry I won't call you an idiot if you disagree with me.

It seems highly likely, almost certain, that it is the same. I still am somewhat surprised Joe's arm could have moved that much in the microinstant between the two photos, but the chances that there was another play at third base with so many similarities seems remote.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Is there a Pulitzer Prize for the hobby ? This is the most amazing discovery since sliced bread !

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It seems highly likely, almost certain, that it is the same. I still am somewhat surprised Joe's arm could have moved that much in the microinstant between the two photos, but the chances that there was another play at third base with so many similarities seems remote.

Peter at first glance Joe's arm stands out but when you look at Lord's right hand and his head you will see that they have moved a similar distance between the two photos.

Yet other things pointed out stay at consistent angles and positions.

What's missing to me is anything drastically out of place or shape. Given the few number of games played in Cleveland between these two teams I think the odds that there was another play at third that would so closely mirror the other is a real real long shot.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It seems highly likely, almost certain, that it is the same. I still am somewhat surprised Joe's arm could have moved that much in the microinstant between the two photos, but the chances that there was another play at third base with so many similarities seems remote.

What if the newspaper image was snapped at the time which Joe's body was no longer moving in his slide? You are assuming the movement of the body sliding coincides with the movement of the arm. The movement of the slide is pure momentum where as the movement of the arm is kinetic. We don't know if it was a fraction of a second or a full second between shots. Don't know about you but it does not take me more than a second to life my arm from my that distance. The arm is in the same position in both images.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by botn

What if the newspaper image was snapped at the time which Joe's body was no longer moving in his slide? You are assuming the movement of the body sliding coincides with the movement of the arm. The movement of the slide is pure momentum where as the movement of the arm is kinetic. We don't know if it was a fraction of a second or a full second between shots. Don't know about you but it does not take me more than a second to life my arm from my that distance. The arm is in the same position in both images.

Wouldn't he have slid hard enough that his momentum sould have carried him at least into the bag? Seems unlikely the second image was snapped when he was just lying there short of the bag. But who knows.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by brett

Maybe so, but at least I'm an asshole who just contributed something pretty big to the hobby. I can't tell you how many private messages I've gotten from people who told me not to worry about all the doubters who are just jealous that a first time poster came on here and added something much greater than you probably ever will.

According to Lee Behrens you're not the first person to think this was Jackson...and seriously there have been very few (if any?) on this thread who don't believe that it could be Jackson...you have to realize that absent the ACTUAL PHOTO FROM THE TIME PERIOD there are going to be some doubts. I may believe that it is Jackson (and I do), and I might bet my life savings on it....but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

I would suggest that if you do want to stick around here after this thread dies down and contribute further (and I hope you will) that you tone down the MB3 imitation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I would suggest that if you do want to stick around here after this thread dies down and contribute further (and I hope you will) that you tone down the MB3 imitation.

Barkman could give this dickhead lessons in civility. Pathetic.

[martyogelvie]

when I first looked at the newspapper photo i thought now way was this the same play.. the more I look at it the more it looks like it is from teh same play...

is this a case of my mind seeing what it wants to see.????

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by martyogelvie

is this a case of my mind seeing what it wants to see.????

Marty IMO no, given the observations made by Paul, Mark, and myself.

1) The photos as pointed out before were taken from two different angles. The bottom photo was further up the 3rd baseline than the top.

2) Lord's right hand, Lord's head, and Joe's right arm all have moved proportionally from one photo to the next. Joe's right leg, Lord's feet, and Joe's head have all maintained their position. Nothing is out of place from one photo to the next.

3) The angles surrounding the bag including the curvature on the home plate side are identical.

In addition -
4) The dark pattern on the side of 3rd base matches in both photos.
5) Lord's right knee is bending forward in the second photo compared to the first. This is consistent with the 2nd photo being taken a split second after the first as Lord bends down closer to tag the runner.

Mark's comments:
As to the newpaper photo, let me try to provide a possible explanation for the socks and shadows (if this has already been done, sorry but I didn't see it). This needs to be justified and it isn't artist overpaint:

From the card and the very small shadow on the back of Lord's right foot we can see that the sun is high above and somewhat to our right. The sock on his back leg is partly shadowed by his own body. In the newpaper photo, he has moved that left foot forward - more under his body - hence it is more shadowed.

As to the slider's high leg - the one we see with the wrap on the card - we do see the wrap a little bit in the newpaper photo - just to our left of Lord's right leg - a thin strip of white - then it goes black perhaps due to the shadow of Lord's body as he slides under him. The extreme black and white is what we get because this is a half-tone image.

[teetwoohsix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuWD7VrHquU

This has been a great thread, is there anyway to turn this back into a fun thing?

[brett]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Barkman could give this dickhead lessons in civility. Pathetic.

Now I'm a dickhead... What's pathetic is guys like you who talk tough while hiding behind your keyboard. Loser.

[sportscardtheory]

This is a crude paint job, but it shows why I believe it's the same play. That's a very defined wrinkle and it would be nearly impossible that it happened twice the exact same way.

[Abravefan11]

You had requested this image yesterday and I was just working on it for you. It's a little rough but hopefully shows your point that the fold of the pants at the knee shown by the piping is very similar.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

This is a crude paint job, but it shows why I believe it's the same play. That's a very defined wrinkle and it would be nearly impossible that it happened twice the exact same way.

[Our posts overlapped - but my response was to sportscardtheory before TIm's last post just above.]

Actually that's a nice job. If you magnify the images more you can run the comparison farther up and they do match.