Mastro Auctions Mastro's Stuff?

[Leon]

I think it's always a bit sad when a collector sells his collection. Bill has always been nice to me so that is the way I treat him too. If he did something wrong then let the justice system handle it. As for the long ago comment about "well, if someone shill bid you how could you be friendly with them?" I would say to that, that if I was targeted then yes, I would be very unhappy and sever the friendship. If it was a blanket issue and everyone was targeted, then I can still be friendly with that person but they will have to make restitution and pay their dues. I am sure some will take this all the wrong way and make jokes and sarcasm. That is ok too. If that is what gives someone enjoyment then more power to them. On a personal note it will be interesting to see what the Horner League Compostite goes for. From the small screenshot shown I would say mine is comparable, so it should be interesting. I wish Bill the best......

As for the selection of auction houses....a foregone conclusion. Legendary will do well with it.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it's always a bit sad when a collector sells his collection. Bill has always been nice to me so that is the way I treat him too. If he did something wrong then let the justice system handle it. As for the long ago comment about "well, if someone shill bid you how could you be friendly with them?" I would say to that, that if I was targeted then yes, I would be very unhappy and sever the friendship. If it was a blanket issue and everyone was targeted, then I can still be friendly with that person but they will have to make restitution and pay their dues. I am sure some will take this all the wrong way and make jokes and sarcasm. That is ok too. If that is what gives someone enjoyment then more power to them. On a personal note it will be interesting to see what the Horner League Compostite goes for. From the small screenshot shown I would say mine is comparable, so it should be interesting. I wish Bill the best......

As for the selection of auction houses....a foregone conclusion. Legendary will do well with it.

This isn't a comment on who might have done what in the case of Mastro Auctions but more of a general rule of mine: I assume that if I'm truly friends with someone, and they decide to engage in an activity in which they take advantage of people, I'll be spared because of that friendship. Otherwise I don't think they consider me a friend at all but rather just another mark/sucker.

(That's 100 percent sarcasm free, by the way.)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon's comment reminds me of the line in Catch-22 when someone tells Yossarian he shouldn't take it personally that he is being shot at, because they are shooting at everyone.

[calvindog]

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

[Matthew H]

I wonder if worries of shill bidding will affect the prices realized...

[Leon]

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

You said it in your question, Peter. I can seperate the fact that someone did something wrong to lots of people (hypothetically) and I was one of them OR the fact I was targeted? Yeah, to me I can distinguish between them. I am not saying anyone else should, but I do. regards

ps....and after some more thought on the whole subject I do reserve the right to change my mind at any time in the future I could see me being pissed about being ripped off (hypothetically of course)..

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

I had my home loan through Countrywide and some knucklehead stole all of Countrywide's customers social security numbers...I was mad at Countrywide for this happening, but I'd be a lot madder if the knucklehead had only targeted me because then it would be personal.

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

Wrong. And uncharacteristically illogical.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

Wrong. And uncharacteristically illogical.

Yes, I am sorry if I offended anyone with the way I feel. Illogical?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

Thanks for the laugh, Jeff. It's been a long day...

If it was my client with all the 'stuff' swirling around his former business and former business partners I'd probably advise him to have a true third party sell it all rather than anyone with connections to my former business, just so there is no appearance of impropriety. Not saying anything will be wrong, just that as this thread shows the selection of auctioneers perhaps needlessly raises questions that might be better left unasked.

And I have to ask: does anyone think Mastro will have trouble getting paid on his consignments?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

[Leon]

BTW, I am not defending anyone if they did something wrong. If they comitted a crime then they should pay the same penalty as anyone else. It's not that difficult to comprehend, really. I have the ability to see the difference between a legal issue and friendship though, and prefer to see it that way. If others prefer to not like someone because of something they did to them, even if it wasn't targeted, I see that point too. I am multi-tasking in that respect. best regards

[sago]

I hope Bill got a good deal on the commission.

I can't wait to see the descriptions. Is it going to be vintage Bigelow, or more the Don West approach?

I'd speculate that this was worked out over 3 years ago that when the time came, Doug would get the collection.

Anything but that would have been a large slap in the face, and potentially disastrous for Legendary. Afterall, why would anyone consign there if the former owner, that left on good terms wouldn't? (former owner, who left on good terms? I should write their press release)

[Orioles1954]

Good grief. Collecting baseball cards is a fun hobby and I enjoy make my living in them. However, at the end of the day it's just that....a nice diversion. If we understand that everything we own is on temporarily loan to us, we won't need to get emotionally attached and ascribe silly emotions (IMHO) such as "sad" to parting with them.

[barrysloate]

You can't generalize whether it's a sad event if someone sells his collection. If you're about to foreclose on your house and you have to sell your collection to save it, it very well may be sad. But if you are just tired of collecting and don't get the excitement from it you once did, then selling it is just the next step in your life. Just about everybody sells his stuff at some point, for any number of reasons.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

Kind of like clients who are convicted of murdering their parents asking for mercy because they are orphans.

[autograf]

I think it's funny that some people, unnamed, take the hardest line possible against Mastro/Mastronet/Allen/Legendary, yet still bid in their auctions. Hopefully none of those are on this thread.

I don't really have any feelings whatsoever about Bill Mastro and his collection. I'm neither sad nor glad he's selling. More stuff in the marketplace I guess but I don't know him personally although those who apparently do feel he's a decent enough guy.

We've debated this crap ad nauseum (sp?) here and didn't solve anything then and haven't solved anything here in this thread. The bottom line, for now, is all these people are walking around, running the same type of business they have for years. So....until the rubber meets the road, it's all speculation.

Articles by O'Keefe and gyrations on a message board don't put people in jail. Judges & Juries do......

[Jewish-collector]

That's what this message board is for. Just to vent. Nothing gets solved on here. It's sort of like Rosh Hashanah. No new prayers are said. Same ones every year.

L'Shanah Tova to those who observe Rosh Hashanah.