Anonymity vs Privacy on the Net54baseball

T206Collector · #1 04-03-2011, 06:32 PM

If you want to treat it like a clubhouse, that's your prerogative -- just keep in mind that this forum is as open to the public as a fishbowl.

It is not at all surprising that the clubhouse members want to know who they're conversing with by full name. You've all exposed yourselves as real humans, with real emotions and feelings. I'm just a Matty Dark Cap Avatar and a real passion for T206 cards. If the price for doing that here is joining your clubhouse, well then I guess I'll just move on.

alanu · #2 04-03-2011, 06:42 PM

I would prefer to remain at least semi-private for security/privacy reasons and would especially not want to be on a "member list" of collectors, but then again I'm a little paranoid and don't even use my real name on facebook.

sportscardpete · #3 04-03-2011, 06:43 PM

Honestly, I really don't like having my name put out in public. If there was a way that only the people on the board could see my name (and not through public searches, ex Google) than I would have no issue putting my name in. Which is why I feel everyone should have their name in their public profile but not on individual posts. I think that is fair for everyone, and is probably something the general universe can agree on.

Also, Leon you are doing an awesome job. It must be hard keeping everyone happy and no decision is easy.

Thank you,

P*ter I****ce**i =)

Rich Klein · #4 04-03-2011, 06:55 PM

I think the real issue comes down to in what threads you make posts.

Making posts in threads about -- Net 54 Contest as to what an EBay item will sell for --- is fine -- I don't care if you post your name in that one. We had a nice thread on the post-war boards about 67 Topps Hi#'s -- on that one -- no names needed.

Making posts in threads such as the one we had a way way back about JP Cohen's background or something that looks askew in a Memory Lane auction (That was the 1st thought that came into mind -- no inference meant) -- then if JP, Daniel (Who I have known since the 1980's), etc want to know who made that post, they do have the right to do so. The cosignor of some of the cards in question later posted to his credit.

Regards
Rich

Leon · #5 04-03-2011, 06:56 PM

Well, it looks like everyone can sort of understand the situation. I am not sure there is a perfect solution. Here is an idea that might upset fewer folks than what is happening now...

How about when you get into a heated debate, or any kind of discussion with a board member, and they want to know who you are, then they can email me and I can tell them your name?? It isn't perfect but I doubt I would get more than a request or two every several days, maybe less...as most people do know each other. Once I tell someone I won't have to tell them again (for that member). I want this to be as open of a forum as possible while forcing people to take responsibility for what they say. (if it gets to that point in a discussion). I understand there will be some objections but at least it's a start. .thoughts?

ps...btw, this would mean you could only have your user id on the board, always.....

Rich Klein · #6 04-03-2011, 07:03 PM

Sounds reasonable ---- and remember -- that person must also post and maintain a valid email address. The person who is asking must be able to contact the poster in question -- no blocks or anything ---

You say something, you take responsibility.

Rich

Kawika · #7 04-03-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

If you want to treat it like a clubhouse, that's your prerogative -- just keep in mind that this forum is as open to the public as a fishbowl.

It is not at all surprising that the clubhouse members want to know who they're conversing with by full name. You've all exposed yourselves as real humans, with real emotions and feelings. I'm just a Matty Dark Cap Avatar and a real passion for T206 cards. If the price for doing that here is joining your clubhouse, well then I guess I'll just move on.

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

Mikehealer · #8 04-03-2011, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

I couldn't agree more. Well typed.

JamesGallo · #9 04-03-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

I agree with this as well. It drived me nuts that people try to sell something and just give an email. If I don't have contact with you how am I supposed to know your name. I believe currenctly the mods can see everyones name and I think that at a certain point a request for someone's name would be ok.

Lets say someone has to get to 100 or 200 posts before they can request contact infromation that might help as well and prevent a run of the mill searcher from getting any contact information.

Leon's idea seems like it is fine and I do think of this as somewhat of a community and enjoy talking cards with people in person as well.

I understand the security issue, but IMO if someone tracks you down with plans to steal your cards then it is more likely someone you know locally then someone you met on a chat board 5 states away. Just my opinion but I don't see typical crooks searching out card collections.

James G

asphaltman · #10 04-03-2011, 08:12 PM

For me it's not a matter of thinking everyone is going to come after my collection...just seems like after being around here for years you should have the right to be known by the majority of the board with your handle, or first name, or whatever....

And anyway, if some goofball wants to come after my collection they'll get to meet Mr. Smith & Wesson before they'd meet Mr. Cobb or Anson....

Rich Klein · #11 04-03-2011, 08:42 PM

Names are good --- is that believe it or not, there might be people with axes to grind, and they might even be compensated for those efforts --- to make posts about certain people, certain auction houses; certain grading companies, etc.

There was a case a couple of years back, where the CEO of Whole Foods Company went to a chat board to post negative things about not just a competitor but someone they were interested in purchasing as well.

Here is a link to one story about that situation

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...e_blunder.html

If I did not have to put my name out there, I could do something like this to hurt PSA/BGS/SGC or any of a number of auction houses. I might even be an employee of a competitor.

Yes I do get the privacy and security issue, but you know -- I had people over at my house to give me quotes on insulation --- and one guy showed me what he used to give me the quotes -- and EVERYTHING was a public record issue. Yes, he was/is very legit -- his quote was within 3 percent of the other quote I got.

My point is, there are more dangers to people not knowing who you are for this board then people knowing who you are. And, if you don't want people to know who you are -- stay out of the controversial threads and stay in the vast majority of threads.

Rich

alanu · #12 04-03-2011, 08:49 PM

Leon, is there anyway to earmark certain threads to require full names in order to post and then leave others where anyone can post.

That would probably require marking each user as to whether they are full name users or not.

Maybe more trouble than it's worth.

T206Collector · #13 04-03-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

Just a couple of responses:

Requiring names may get rid of the bottom dwellers, so I get that, though only to a degree - who is to say what my real name is. You can call me "Paul" if you like.

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

I'd rather not have to worry about these paranoid concerns, or who will find me or look for me or whatever. And by keeping a low Internet profile, I don't have to.

So, again, if you'd like to take the small risk that posting your name with your valuables is going to get you robbed, or that your boss would fire you or not hire you, go for it, dude. But to require people who want to talk about baseball cards, of all things, to take any risk whatsoever is ridiculous.

calvindog · #14 04-03-2011, 09:50 PM

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?

Leon · #15 04-03-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?

A brilliant suggestion. I will second this motion.

bijoem · #16 04-04-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

A brilliant suggestion. I will second this motion.

+1

When I first came to N54 - I wouldn't mind posting my name, or talking about family or personal stuff and my card collection was viewable to anyone on my website.

Over time (and because of some comments or correspondence from member(s)) - I feel less comfortable with the idea of posting my name, or sharing personal tidbits, and my collection on my website is now password protected.

Add to that the point raised about googling your name.... I would rather not have all of my posts and threads here show up in a google search.

So.... I am for 'no names', with the understanding that all names can be divulged at the moderator's discretion.

I would like to point out (especially because the beginning part of my post has a negative vibe to it)..... that N54 is one of the coolest places to go on the net. This is a great, great site. And a thank you goes to Leon and the other moderators.

bmarlowe1 · #17 04-04-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?

Perfect

teetwoohsix · #18 04-04-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?

I agree, this sounds like the way to go.

Recently (sort of) in the watercooler section, the board member (or ex?) Shimozukawa posted a link to a site where you put your name in and it pulls up every address that is tied to your name. I think he deleted all of his posts so it's probably gone.

I tried it and sure enough it pulled up my address(one of the few with the same name). I understand there are quite a few sites that do this, but it was a bit alarming to me how easy it is for anyone to figure out where you live just by your name, just having an unlisted phone # these days just doesn't do the trick anymore. And why would he post that on this site? Who knows, because now he is gone, and left us with a bunch of deleted posts

Anyhow- this is the best site on the net, and Jeff's idea sits just fine with me too. Thanks for taking care of the board Leon- very much appreciated.

Sincerely, Clayton

Kawika · #19 04-03-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Just a couple of responses:

Requiring names may get rid of the bottom dwellers, so I get that, though only to a degree - who is to say what my real name is. You can call me "Paul" if you like.

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

I'd rather not have to worry about these paranoid concerns, or who will find me or look for me or whatever. And by keeping a low Internet profile, I don't have to.

So, again, if you'd like to take the small risk that posting your name with your valuables is going to get you robbed, or that your boss would fire you or not hire you, go for it, dude. But to require people who want to talk about baseball cards, of all things, to take any risk whatsoever is ridiculous.

Probably not a bad idea to keep a low profile. Nowadays some dirtbag can pick your pocket via the internet from the comfort of his basement suite in Pyongyang or Bucharest. I'm just an old guy with dated expectations who appreciates the congeniality and manners of the bygone millenium and who is apparently pissing in the wind in the new one.

Collect Equity · #20 04-04-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

Another reason to avoid associating your name with your card collection is in case you run for public office some day. I can just imagine a news article about how Jonathan who is running for Mayor is out-of-touch with the common man's plight because he spent $20K a year on baseball cards last year alone.

(like when John McCain was asked about how many houses he had -- he's invested in rentals and someone else takes care of them so he didn't know. Boy did that make him look out of touch)

I too like the idea that when people get in disputes their full name AND email are disclosed to each other in an email to both from Leon so they can take it offline if they'd like.

-Jonathan

Kenny Cole · #21 04-04-2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

!00% agree

Kenny Cole · #22 04-04-2011, 10:21 PM

Understanding that you need to be substantially less involved in personal quarrels, I will say this: If I am going to be shot at by someone for something I said, IMO, they need to be a real person with a real name. On the board. Accountable on the board, not in private emails, after you tell me who it is that's shooting at me. If I'm getting shot at in public, I want to respond in public. So when I send you the email about who is shooting at me, get the answer, and post that full name on the board, is that an infraction? If so, why?

I personally am not too satisfied with being attacked by some tool who doesn't even have the guts to post his or her real name due to alleged "privacy" issues that causes them to be anonymous while they're shooting at you. Being "private" is all well and good until you enter the fray. Then, IMO, you should forfeit that right. Understanding that was the problem which caused this post in the first place, the proposed solution doesn't fix it.

Matthew H · #23 04-04-2011, 10:37 PM

One cool thing about having a common first and last name combo... I don't think that anyone can find me by searching for Matt Hall.

I'm pretty sure that it is much easier to find out who someone is by their email address. I think everyone's email address is public here too right?

Plus, there are bigger privacy concerns then net 54 on the internet.

If you haven't seen this website, type you name in search, see what they have, and opt out:

http://www.spokeo.com/name-search?g=...FQELbAod3Godqw

steve B · #24 04-05-2011, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew H

One cool thing about having a common first and last name combo... I don't think that anyone can find me by searching for Matt Hall.

I'm pretty sure that it is much easier to find out who someone is by their email address. I think everyone's email address is public here too right?

Plus, there are bigger privacy concerns then net 54 on the internet.

If you haven't seen this website, type you name in search, see what they have, and opt out:

http://www.spokeo.com/name-search?g=...FQELbAod3Godqw

Does that actually find stuff about you? For me all it had was an address that I moved from 10+years ago. And that with an incorrect middle initial. I'll be leaving that up there. A bit of disinformation goes a long way. (Facebook thinks I'm over 100 years old

)

mr.ginter · #25 04-05-2011, 11:05 AM

You may not use the Software to engage in or allow others to engage in any illegal activity where the Software is accessed and used. You may not use the Software to engage in any activity that will violate the rights of third parties, including, without limitation, through the use, public display, public performance, reproduction, distribution, or modification of communications or materials that infringe copyrights, trademarks, publicity rights, privacy rights, other proprietary rights, or rights against defamation of third parties.

Leon · #26 04-04-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Understanding that you need to be substantially less involved in personal quarrels, I will say this: If I am going to be shot at by someone for something I said, IMO, they need to be a real person with a real name. On the board. Accountable on the board, not in private emails, after you tell me who it is that's shooting at me. If I'm getting shot at in public, I want to respond in public. So when I send you the email about who is shooting at me, get the answer, and post that full name on the board, is that an infraction? If so, why?

I personally am not too satisfied with being attacked by some tool who doesn't even have the guts to post his or her real name due to alleged "privacy" issues that causes them to be anonymous while they're shooting at you. Being "private" is all well and good until you enter the fray. Then, IMO, you should forfeit that right. Understanding that was the problem which caused this post in the first place, the proposed solution doesn't fix it.

Hi Kenny
And I am not comfortable with how it's been going. Give me a solution that works for everyone. Now, that being said, I think if you re-read my statement you will see that there is an "out". And by "out" I mean if someone gets too out of control then their name can be put on the board...otherwise, I am all ears.

ps...not sure about you putting the name out there. If I say yes, it will cause a sh** storm and if I say no it will cause a sh** storm...tough one...I am sure I wouldn't give you an infraction...maybe a verbal warning

Kenny Cole · #27 04-04-2011, 10:48 PM

So my question stands and remains unanswered: When I send you that email, get that name, and publicly post it, what happens?

Kenny

Leon · #28 04-04-2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

So my question stands and remains unanswered: When I send you that email, get that name, and publicly post it, what happens?

Kenny

And my answer stands...did you read my PS in the post?

#29 04-03-2011, 10:04 PM

A screen name pariah, I figure Ty is much worse, and probably less trustworthy. Does it REALLY MATTER?

steve B · #30 04-04-2011, 08:46 AM

Board privacy is a complex issue. I'm on a few mailing lists/boards for bicycle collecting and/or repairing. I've also been on a few that are no longer running.

All the ones no longer running allowed complete anonymity. And they devolved into a fesival of very low name calling and coarse language. Even by my low standards. Once a lot of content got lost the collapse was quick as only the ones doing the stuff were left to abuse each other.

Most allow some anonymity, but not total, and usually there's no clear policy. The one that comes to mind is a mailing list for bulders or wannabe builders of custom bike frames. Some people are in the business, and are quite well known. Some are just starting and want to be known. The mostly anonymous ones are usually hobbyists. And usually everyone is ok with that. The exception lately was someone who wanted to be anonymous, but also wanted to split a $2000 parts order with one or more other people. How he planned on doing that without giving any info escapes me.

Another requires a lot of transparency, full name town and country on every post. That one has rarely had any full on arguments. (There was one guy who used to regularly post while either drunk or off his meds, but he's ok now)

But the money involved isn't as big as what goes on in cards. So there's less likelihood of theft. And it's closer to blue collar, so there's less sensitivity, and less chance of a lawsuit of any sort. (Except product liability, some new framebuilders are pushing the envelope a bit far in my opinion)

The challenge is how to allow some anonymity without giving the worst people a free hand to ruin things.
T206 collector has a point that we don't really have to actually know each other. And that there are security concerns.
But..... If a prospective employer won't hire me because I have a life outside work that includes baseball cards I'm not really interested in working for them.

I like the idea of potentially flagging threads as controversial, but it sounds like more work rather than less.
Pre approving people with good reason for keeping anonymous and maybe adding a logo of some sort? Although this just marks someone as maybe more interesting to the curious/nefarious.

I try to remember to add my name if it's a controversy. Like Kawika I feel that I am responsible for my comments. I also do first name last initial on most posts.

Another element that I think is lost with full anonymity is knowing whose opinion is being read. There are areas where I feel confident in my opinions. And areas where I don't have as much confidence. One of the fun things when I first came here was seeing some names I knew from the past. Guys that I knew had been around a long time and had a good deal of knowledge.
I also actually liked the overall atmosphere of the board. One of my welcomes was me mentioning that I had some blank back Southern league T206s. The very next response was I think literally "yeah right.." So I had to do scans. Being held to standards works well for me, probably a product of a backgroung in machinery/ manufacturing/engineering etc.

Steve Birmingham

novakjr · #31 04-04-2011, 09:05 AM

Honestly, I'm all for anonymity if a member chooses to remain anonymous, but I think it would be nice for us members who list our names to be hidden from non-members. Or maybe even institute a trial period/limited access, in which new members can't see names for at least 30/45 days, to avoid anymore SteaknChop type fiascos, where a new guy gets mad and just starts using names to look up personal info. Hell, the harassing calls were just the tip of the ice-burg, as far as what a person can do to you, just simply by knowing your name and having a grudge. As far as the current rules regarding names and heated discussion, I'm completely on board with keeping them the way they are.

iwantitiwinit · #32 04-04-2011, 10:57 AM

I prefer not to dilvulge personal information for privacy reasons but love the site. Is there anyway that there can be 2 different member status? One which allows someone to view all pictures anoymously (sp?) without the ability to comment and see other individuals sign-ins. Viewing pictures is my primary use of the site. Then a second higher level status with full functionality. It would be a shame if i couldn't view pictures without divulging personal information.

Leon · #33 04-04-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I prefer not to dilvulge personal information for privacy reasons but love the site. Is there anyway that there can be 2 different member status? One which allows someone to view all pictures anoymously (sp?) without the ability to comment and see other individuals sign-ins. Viewing pictures is my primary use of the site. Then a second higher level status with full functionality. It would be a shame if i couldn't view pictures without divulging personal information.

No worries...if you stay out of those controversial or hotly debated threads there will never be a need for the personal information to be made public.

It seems as members keep thinking everything is ok the way it is. It isn't. From the responses, and lack of rebuttals, what is probably going to happen is what Jeff L and I mentioned a few posts up. You will NOT have to display your name and if anyone asks I will give it to them privately. IF there are problems with that then someone needs to speak up. I can not continue to bird dog the "full names issue" on the site with the way the debates and arguments are going. Those discussions are fine, don't get me wrong, I just don't want to get involved as much as I have to now. If it stays the way I am proposing in this post then I will amend the rules to reflect this new procedure. If there are any complaints or issues about this PLEASE speak up now. Also, if someone asks for someones name, and there is no issue going on, then I will not give out the info. Your privacy is still in tact. regards

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