The Cincinnati Wagner "Graded"

steve B · #1 10-21-2011, 12:12 PM

The known uncataloged variety is Wilson with a yellow or orange sky and a very different red sunset. Fairly major and once you have them both in hand it's easy to see it's not fading or a print problem. Both are common.
The major one was discussed here within the last year or so very sceptically, and has since been graded by PSA. I'm deliberately avoiding that one because it's a bit under the radar and I'm hoping to find one before it gets expensive.

The Wagners I have pictures of show probably 3 distinct very minor differences that I can see from the small pictures I have. I know I'll never own even one, but the differences are there.

Steve B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Examples please. If you are talking about the oddities that we have known about for decades, I refer you back to the rarity of the Wagner and the infinitesimally small odds of such a thing popping up for that particular card.

Personally, I think it would be hilarious (and sad at the same time), if this idea caught on. Within a couple of years we might see as many (or more) of these 'uncatalogued' versions of the T206 Wagner as we currently have actual examples of the real thing.

At some point, someone will figure out a computerized way of applying ink to cardboard to simulate t206-type lithography; e.g - you insert the card in a 'scanner' of some sort, it is analyzed by a computer and proper ink jets are activated to create an exact dot pattern. Seriously, it will happen.

Runscott · #2 10-21-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

The known uncataloged variety is Wilson with a yellow or orange sky and a very different red sunset. Fairly major and once you have them both in hand it's easy to see it's not fading or a print problem. Both are common.
The major one was discussed here within the last year or so very sceptically, and has since been graded by PSA. I'm deliberately avoiding that one because it's a bit under the radar and I'm hoping to find one before it gets expensive.

The Wagners I have pictures of show probably 3 distinct very minor differences that I can see from the small pictures I have. I know I'll never own even one, but the differences are there.

Steve B

Steve, you have me a bit baffled. So, in the few photo examples of real t206 Wagners that you have seen, you have spotted at least 3 distinct differences, yet you can't tell the Cincinnati one is a fake?

I'll leave others to discuss this with you, as I have nothing further to add that could help you with this.

steve B · #3 10-21-2011, 01:13 PM

Woah! My earlier post listed about 5 things that made me certain it IS a fake!

Maybe the section I had about how those things logically made the chances of it being real in any way incredibly small was confusing?

I do not think it's real.
I will admit a very tiny chance that I'm wrong.
I'm just as positive that If I were holding it that chance would become 0%

Steve B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Steve, you have me a bit baffled. So, in the few photo examples of real t206 Wagners that you have seen, you have spotted at least 3 distinct differences, yet you can't tell the Cincinnati one is a fake?

I'll leave others to discuss this with you, as I have nothing further to add that could help you with this.

Runscott · #4 10-21-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

The known uncataloged variety is Wilson with a yellow or orange sky and a very different red sunset. Fairly major and once you have them both in hand it's easy to see it's not fading or a print problem. Both are common.

Steve, I've never been quite sure what to make of this particular type of variation - you will find the multi-colored 'indistinct' separation differences in many, many litho cards. Wilson does kind of stand out in that there are two that are fairly distinct, but I have seen a few 'tweeners'. I think it's likely that on this type of 'variety', it's a case of having two areas on the 'red-orange' part of the plate that were easier to separate (not enough ink on one portion) than in most backgrounds like this. So basically, if it wasn't intentional, I don't consider it an uncatalogued 'variety' - it's related to a problem with the printing process and while interesting, not an error or variety.

Obviously, we have seen examples in other cards where the background colors are stunning, whereas other examples of the same card are less exciting. Some of the printers must have realized that even though they had a formulaic approach to producing these, sometimes the colors didn't come out right. If it was obvious, and the run didn't look good, it ended up in the scrap pile. If it looked good, it was probably kept. Obviously, the Wilson cards with various amounts of red below the orange all looked 'right', so no need to scrap.

Certainly the differences between a real card and a reprint are something else altogether. If it was easy (or even possible) to make a 'reprint' that could slip by the eyes of not only the doufusses who played the race card in their article, but ALSO by the eyes of real t206 collectors on this board, we'd have slabbed forgeries all over the place.

Okay, now I really have said all I have to say about this

steve B · #5 10-21-2011, 01:37 PM

The Wilson is a real puzzler. There are 2 basic types that seem very different, with lots of variance between them.

Even in the late 1970's Litho ink colors were mixed by hand. So a simple color difference is usually just a matter of who did the mixing that day.

Producing an exact copy fake would be nearly impossible. In theory It could be done, but the expense and technical skills required would be prohibitive.

I have some defenite ideas about some of the small differences, I'd been planning on posting about it anyway.

But in a different thread that doesn't involve reprints

Steve B

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