O/T - This snapshot was taken...

barrysloate · #1 11-22-2011, 12:08 PM

I always wondered what the world would have been like if that day never happened, and how history would have been changed. That's an amazing photo.

Runscott · #2 11-22-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I always wondered what the world would have been like if that day never happened, and how history would have been changed. That's an amazing photo.

Just in terms of Presidents, we probably would have gotten Johnson in '68, and with no war he might have lasted two terms - might never have had a President Nixon.

Hankphenom · #3 11-22-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Just in terms of Presidents, we probably would have gotten Johnson in '68, and with no war he might have lasted two terms - might never have had a President Nixon.

I disagree about Johnson, don't think he would have had a chance, probably RFK or another younger man. And Nixon, although he might actually have won in '60, was done. He couldn't win the governorship of his home state, California, and it took the murder of both Kennedys to make a comeback even plausible. I think RFK would have taken the 1968 election in a landslide--I don't know what historians say about that, but I was 22 and remember the feeling and the momentum his campaign had created. His appeal crossed all boundaries. One of the countless pieces of fascinating trivia about the JFK assassination was the fact that Nixon flew out of Love Field the morning of the 22nd.

Adlai Stevenson said of JFK, "Tomorrow and tomorrow we shall miss him."

canjond · #4 11-22-2011, 01:52 PM

I'm partially through 11.23 - good read so far.

canjond · #5 11-22-2011, 01:54 PM

Also - a couple signatures...

Runscott · #6 11-22-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I disagree about Johnson, don't think he would have had a chance, probably RFK or another younger man. And Nixon, although he might actually have won in '60, was done. He couldn't win the governorship of his home state, California, and it took the murder of both Kennedys to make a comeback even plausible. I think RFK would have taken the 1968 election in a landslide--I don't know what historians say about that, but I was 22 and remember the feeling and the momentum his campaign had created. His appeal crossed all boundaries. One of the countless pieces of fascinating trivia about the JFK assassination was the fact that Nixon flew out of Love Field the morning of the 22nd.

Adlai Stevenson said of JFK, "Tomorrow and tomorrow we shall miss him."

Regarding RFK, you have to remember that in '68 Kennedy would have been stepping down, presumably having done a good job, and the nomination probably would have gone to his VP if he wanted it. RFK might not have even tried for the nomination until later - he would have only been 51 in 1976

barrysloate · #7 11-22-2011, 02:30 PM

With John and Robert we're dealing with two assassinations, so predicting what might have happened is even more difficult.

Hankphenom · #8 11-22-2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Regarding RFK, you have to remember that in '68 Kennedy would have been stepping down, presumably having done a good job, and the nomination probably would have gone to his VP if he wanted it. RFK might not have even tried for the nomination until later - he would have only been 51 in 1976

Good point, and of course events could have created any kind of scenarios by then. But, I don't think either of the Kennedys regarded Johnson as presidential material, on the ticket for political purposes only, and certainly JFK would either have supported his brother actively or removed himself from a contest between Johnson and Bobby for the nomination in '68. Again, circumstances would have dictated, but I don't think Johnson had much national support whereas another Kennedy, following upon a successful presidency of JFK, should have had a leg up on the nomination, I would think.

David Atkatz · #9 11-22-2011, 03:49 PM

No national support?

Johnson won by a landslide in '64. And as far as "not being Presidential material," Johnson's domestic policy far outshone Kennedy's. It's too bad he didn't get us out of Vietnam, rather than escalating. Had he done so, he'd be regarded today as one of the great Presidents.

(At the time, of course, I hated LBJ. I was one of the kids in the streets of D.C., chanting "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did ya kill today?")

Ladder7 · #10 11-22-2011, 04:07 PM

Poignant image Jimmy. I was in kindergarten and they'd sent us home early. I was walking home with the bigger kids. So much confusion and tears. I didn't get it until later, lotsa people get shot in our city. Innocence lost.

Hankphenom · #11 11-22-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

No national support?

Johnson won by a landslide in '64. And as far as "not being Presidential material," Johnson's domestic policy far outshone Kennedy's. It's too bad he didn't get us out of Vietnam, rather than escalating. Had he done so, he'd be regarded today as one of the great Presidents.

(At the time, of course, I hated LBJ. I was one of the kids in the streets of D.C., chanting "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did ya kill today?")

In 1963, nobody, except perhaps Johnson himself, thought he would ever be president. His 1964 landslide, of course, was almost entirely the product of sympathy for JFK and a desire for continuation of his policies. I agree that without the tarnish of Vietnam, Johnson's presidency would have been regarded as a great one. As Buck Turgeson reminded HIS president, "You can't condemn the whole program because of one little slipup!"

Scott Garner · #12 11-22-2011, 12:35 PM

Thanks Jimmy!

I had forgotten that today was the anniversary of the JFK assasination.
My brother in law sent me an e-mail a few days ago which had approximately 30-40 amazing photos. One of them was a pretty graphic morgue photo of JFK after he had been shot.

In the 48 years that have passed since this terrible day in world history, I have never even heard of this picture existing.

I could post it, but I'm not sure that others would want to see such a thing...

David Atkatz · #13 11-22-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I always wondered what the world would have been like if that day never happened, and how history would have been changed. That's an amazing photo.

Read Steven King's brand new novel, "11/22/63."

Mr. Mitt · #14 11-22-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I always wondered what the world would have been like if that day never happened, and how history would have been changed. That's an amazing photo.

Stephen King's new novel, released a few weeks ago, deals with this very question. Not a huge King fan, I liked some of his books more than others, but this one's relatively high on my reading list.

http://www.amazon.com/11-22-63-Steph...1988129&sr=1-1

bmarlowe1 · #15 11-22-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I always wondered what the world would have been like if that day never happened, and how history would have been changed. That's an amazing photo.

It is reasonable to consider that small things, including the actions of a single person, can change history in a big way. A terrific fairly new book on this by Jeff Greenfield:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/books/01book.html

Runscott · #16 11-22-2011, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

It is reasonable to consider that small things, including the actions of a single person, can change history in a big way. A terrific fairly new book on this by Jeff Greenfield:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/books/01book.html

Mark, that's interesting - I like the fact that he's addressing more realistic 'what if' scenarios than the following example mentioned in the review:

"What if a group of time-traveling white supremacists from South Africa gave Robert E. Lee�s troops AK-47 assault rifles to help the Confederacy win the Civil War?"

packs · #17 11-22-2011, 09:50 PM

Very sad day. Loosely related, has anyone else been watching the Vietnam in HD series on the History channel? The average WWII vet saw 10 days of combat during his tour. The average Vietnam Vet saw 240 days of action. Have to wonder if they would have seen any had Kennedy not been killed.

David Atkatz · #18 11-23-2011, 01:45 AM

Those numbers are very, very misleading. Days of combat have been averaged over all serving. But in WWII, there were huge numbers of support personnel, who saw no combat. Those who did see combat, though, for the most part, were involved for a long time. Unless, of course, they were killed. Consider the thousands of USAAF flight crew, who were killed after a few missions, or the Marines who were killed storming beaches in the Pacific in their first day or two, thus bringing down the average.

In Vietnam, you were in for a thirteen month tour, after which you came home. In WWII, you were in for the duration; until you were either killed, or the war ended.

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