Anybody else sick of MLB?

drc · #1 12-10-2011, 10:37 PM

This is exactly why I only watch track & field. No drugs.

YankeeCollector · #2 12-10-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc

This is exactly why I only watch track & field. No drugs.

lol

Bigdaddy · #3 12-10-2011, 10:51 PM

Perhaps, just perhaps, the voters did not know about Braun failing the test because the commissioner of MLB used to own the Brewers.

With that said, I still am a fan of MLB, and MiLB, and baseball in general. Related to what another poster said, it is all driven by money and ego. The same thing that happened to this hobby in the 80's and into the 90's - folks (and companies) saw a potential for profit, and tried to abuse the system to their advantage. Its still going on today with the proliferation of fake cards and autographs. But that does not mean that I'm going to quit the hobby. If you watched the World Series this year and those 7 games did not get your juices flowing, then you should check your pulse.

drc · #4 12-10-2011, 11:29 PM

It's the writer's association not MLB that votes and gives the award. The voters may have had no knowledge of the test, and MLB can't make the writer's association take it back.

Clutch-Hitter · #5 12-11-2011, 08:34 AM

"Nails" is the person I most remember from the 90's. He was a little sherman tank running around shouting at everybody. This is him on a 1988 card and a 1993 card. I figured something was going on back then and not just because of Dykstra, there were several suspicious looking guys. It seems like it would be tough for a man to maintain a physique like that lifting weights while enduring a grueling 162 game season. If I'm not mistaken, those drugs can serve as injury prevention, lengthen a career, etc. I'm not saying Dykstra did it, but I did in fact think it.

I watched McGwire in '98 in Atlanta, got there early for BP. The man was a beast out there, a giant compared to the others, and he was hitting BP balls in places no other players were coming close to. It seemed like he viewed the field as we would if we were hitting on a 200 foot little league field - get it in the air and its gone. But the thing is, I would guess that a very, very large percentage of players were using. If so, they were all playing on the same field equally. Even a non drug using McGwire could have done amazing things, but the thing was, the drugs helped him through the season,and he usually couldn't play a full season. I have a McGwire bat from the 2000 season, when he hit more than thirty home runs before the half way point. There are red ball stitches that remained inside the deep seam impressions after impact:

All the drug use was revealed when? After 2001? I've been sick of it since '01 and Bonds, and I have only good memories of the 98 season, regardless. I was sick of the NFL when Terrell Owens pulled a sharpie out of his sock in the end zone, signed a football and gave it to an adult friend of his. It was disgusting. I'd rather watch McGwire than even a drug free Terrell Owens type.

Santo is in, so its Dale Murphy's turn. Murph makes appearances and speaks against drug use, and he says it as if it was in baseball while he was playing. Injuries definitely shortened his career and hurt his number during the last few years.

Almost forgot (not my cards):

And Frank, Ruth, Dimaggio....were elite athletes, weights or no weights. IMO, a player's abilities should only be compared to players from the same generation. Ruth was above and beyond all other players during his generation. He's the all-time greatest IMO, period, no matter what A-Rod does. Cobb was the greatest of his generation IMO. A different method of keeping who has what records could alleviate a lot of the controversy, such as dead ball to live, post dead ball to pre-war, war to 1990, 1990 and drugs to present.

When it comes to living out childhood dreams and knowing everybody else is likely using, a man is going to do what he has to do to stay there...or get there. And managers want their big dollar guys to be healthy, not saying they knew or anything as I didn't follow the drama, but it just seems like common sense. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally against it, but at this point, its impossible to watch a game and not wonder, examine physiques, etc. The smart guys probably don't lift weights while using. Its going to be very hard to eliminate it and the variations.

The recent drug use got Santo in, IMO. Make two hall of fames. One for pre-1990 and 1990 and later.

dabigyankeeman · #6 12-11-2011, 08:45 AM

I dont see Braun blatantly doing drugs, i bet he took some supplement or medication that raised his testosterone level and i dont believe he is a druggie. However, even if he took the stuff unknowingly he could still be suspended. Interesting how so many are rushing to condemn him on most forums i am on, what happened to innocent until proven totally guilty? I think he is a good guy and that will come out in the end (hopefully).

As to the MVP, when was the test done? Even if he was guilty, is it possible that he started right near the end of the year? Also, to those who say Kemp should now be the MVP, when was his last test, who is to say he is clean?

And going way back, who knows what was in those hot dogs The Babe was eating!!!!!!

obcbobd · #7 12-11-2011, 08:58 AM

I love the game, but its played by people with personal faults. I can overlook that.

I mean we collect cards from much more relatively worse times in MLB history;

The Color Barrier

Black Sox Scandal

Almost total control of a player's future by greedy owners. Imagine signing up with an employer at 17 or 18 and never being able to work at your profession for anyone else. At any time your employer can force (via trade) you to move across the country to work for another team with you having no say - ever.

And a well deserved enshrinement to Santo.

HercDriver · #8 12-11-2011, 09:10 AM

The "innocent, until proven guilty" works in most venues...but baseball used that up long ago...

Cheers,
Geno

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman

I dont see Braun blatantly doing drugs, i bet he took some supplement or medication that raised his testosterone level and i dont believe he is a druggie. However, even if he took the stuff unknowingly he could still be suspended. Interesting how so many are rushing to condemn him on most forums i am on, what happened to innocent until proven totally guilty? I think he is a good guy and that will come out in the end (hopefully).

As to the MVP, when was the test done? Even if he was guilty, is it possible that he started right near the end of the year? Also, to those who say Kemp should now be the MVP, when was his last test, who is to say he is clean?

And going way back, who knows what was in those hot dogs The Babe was eating!!!!!!

Clutch-Hitter · #9 12-11-2011, 10:20 AM

Regarding players from different sports that I've seen:

My favorite basketball player:Michael Jordan

I'm not a basketball fan, but I watched nearly all of Michael Jordan's games with the Bulls. There was no telling what he was going to do day in and day out, and he was a team player. I was playing ball at Birmingham Southern when he joined the Barons. He bought our soccer team an incredible bus for road trips.

My favorite football player: Joe Montana, and a close second: Barry Sanders - after an incredible touchdown, hand the ball to the ref, back to the sideline.

Favorite Baseball player: Fred McGriff - Similar to Sanders

Not sure what the point is in mentioning that, unless it was to say that I never saw Santo play and have no perspective except for stats alone, and we all know stats aren't everything in a team sports.

Republicaninmass · #10 12-13-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc

This is exactly why I only watch track & field. No drugs.

and female body building

Runscott · #11 12-13-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

and female body building

Don't get me excited.

What did the horse say to Sarah Jessica Parker?

Hot Springs Bathers · #12 12-13-2011, 02:13 PM

I have read all the posts blasting the game and its' players and appreciate everyone's opinions.

I was also impressed by the posters notes of his own physical prowess, it puts my 57 year old body to shame. I have read nine books on Babe Ruth and I can assure you that he was one of the prime physical specimens of his day, some actually said a freak of nature.

When the Marines tested Ted Williams he broke every record they had for vision and reflexes. Both Mantle and Maris were considered athletic marvels in their regions.

As far as testing goes, MLB's program has some holes but it is so far ahead of the other pro sports leagues it is embarassing. The NFL refuses to test for anything that it thinks it will find. Look at the size of the players and their DEATH rate before the age of 50, it is like watching the ancient gladiators when you watch a game. The NHL basically does not test for anything, period. The NBA would be down to a dozen players if they just tested for grass!

I enjoy the history of the game and while I love reading about the great players I am not blind to their warts. Through a several decade involvement with SABR there are few days that pass when I am not researching the game and its' past.

My collecting interests parallel my love for the history of the game.

Much of how I respect and enjoy it is best expressed in a poem by Ernie Harwell that I think and hope encompasses the scope of the game;

"Baseball is the President tossing out the first ball of the season and a scrubby schoolboy playing catch with his dad on a Mississippi farm. A tall, thin old man waving a scorecard from the corner of his dugout. That's baseball. And so is big, fat guy with a bulbous nose running out one of his 714 home runs.

There's a man in Mobile who remebers that Honus Wagner hit a triple in Pittsburgh (then) 46 years ago. That's baseball. So is the scout reporting that a sixteen year old pitcher in Cheyenne is a coming Walter Johnson. Baseball is a spirited race of man against man, reflex against reflex. A game of inches. Every skill is measured. Every heroic, every failing is seen and cheered or booed. And then it becomes a statistic.

In baseball democracy shines its' clearest. The only race that matters is the race to the bag. The creed is the rulebook. Color merely something to distinguish one team's uniform from another.

Baseball is a rookie. His experience no bigger than the lump in his throat as he begins fullfillment of his dream. It's a veteran too, a tired old man of 35 hoping that those aching muscles can pull him through another sweltering August. Nicknames are baseball, names like Zeke and Pie and Kiki and Home Run and Cracker and Dizzy and Dazzy.

Baseball is the cool, clear eyes of Rogers Hornsby. The flashing spikes of Ty Cobb and an over aged pixie named Rabbit Maranville.

Baseball is just a game, as simple as a ball and bat, yet as complex as the American spirit it symbolizes. A sport, a business and sometimes almost even a religion.

Why the fairy tale of Willie Mays making a brilliant World Series catch. And then dashing off to play stick ball in the street with his pals. That's baseball. So is the husky voice of a doomed Lou Gehrig saying "I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the earth."

Baseball is cigar smoke, hot roasted peanuts, The Sporting News, ladies day, "Down in front", Take Me Out to the Ballgame and the Star Spangled Banner.

Baseball is a tongue-tied kid from Georgia growing up to be an announcer and praising the Lord for showing him the way to Cooperstown. This is a game for America. Still a game for America, this baseball!"

I stop by to see my 93 year old Dad everyday after work and we watch the news and talk baseball. Here in the south you grow up playing football and both Dad and I did that into college. We seldom talk about the game other than a score or what is on TV. Even now in December he talks about baseball trades, awards and other "Hot Stove" items including Ryan Braun.

Baseball has its' flaws but it is still the best thing going. Very few players are crippled for life when they leave the game. Very few baseball players wind up beating their wives or physically hurting others away from the game. Not perfect but still ok with me!

dabigyankeeman · #13 12-13-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

and female body building

Dont forget womans beach volleyball!!!!!!

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