The BCCG problem

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

NO ONE is forcing their POV down anyone's throat.
Jeff

When the OP and others have stated that BCCG should change their grading scale, then YES, that is forcing his / their POV down the throats of others - their customers who like and use their service and have no problem with their grading scale.

If the OP and others were actually a BCCG customer, then I would understand their argument. I might not agree with it, but as a customer he would have the right vocalize his opinion about their service. However, as I said earlier in this thread, I would be willing to bet that he has never even used their service.

Let's use my Olive Garden example again. I had a bad experience there many years ago and made a decision not to go back, but I don’t tell others that they shouldn’t eat there. That’s their choice and if they like the restaurant, it is of no concern of mine. I have never eaten a White Castle hamburger. That fast food chain does not exist in my part of the country. So if I say, “White Castle sucks!” then what is the basis of my argument? How can I intelligently speak about a product that I’ve never tried? In other words, I would be talking out my a$$ - just as the OP is doing here by never having used BCCGs service.

Jeff, all of this is obviously going way over your head, so I'll just concede the argument. I’m done posting here. Have the last word.

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

When the OP and others have stated that BCCG should change their grading scale, then YES, that is forcing his / their POV down the throats of others - their customers who like and use their service and have no problem with their grading scale.

If the OP and others were actually a BCCG customer, then I would understand their argument. I might not agree with it, but as a customer he would have the right vocalize his opinion about their service. However, as I said earlier in this thread, I would be willing to bet that he has never even used their service.

Let's use my Olive Garden example again. I had a bad experience there many years ago and made a decision not to go back, but I don’t tell others that they shouldn’t eat there. That’s their choice and if they like the restaurant, it is of no concern of mine. I have never eaten a White Castle hamburger. That fast food chain does not exist in my part of the country. So if I say, “White Castle sucks!” then what is the basis of my argument? How can I intelligently speak about a product that I’ve never tried? In other words, I would be talking out my a$$ - just as the OP is doing here by never having used BCCGs service.

Jeff, all of this is obviously going way over your head, so I'll just concede the argument. I’m done posting here. Have the last word.

I have been trying and trying to stay out of a tit-for-tat with vintagetoppsguy because his arguments are so patently absurd and analogies so bereft of logic that it's pointless to even respond. However, since he continues to hurl accusations my way I'll respond to his last post.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. If you disagree with my viewpoint, that's great. It's a free country and debate and discussion about various topics are what make Net54 a great, vibrant place for all collectors. I challenge you to find a single thread in any forum where no opinion has been expressed. That's what this is all about, dude. You have your view and I have mine and we are both entitled to express it here. The problem with so many of these threads is that people cannot agree to disagree. I can agree to disagree with vintagetoppsguy and not resort to accusations, silly analogies and juvenile postings of tampon products to make my point.

For the record, no I have never submitted a card to BCCG or purchased one, but who cares? I have seen plenty of BCCG-graded cards, held them up close to my face and I know their grading scale sucks. I have seen a BCCG 8 with a crease through Sandy Koufax's face. That sucks. I have plenty of education in this hobby and that is enough.

Do I have to smoke a cigarette to know it's bad for me? Do I have to be a victim of scammer Bernie Madoff to advise others not to put their investments with him? Do I have to be a customer of the Yugo automobile to know that the car they made was a piece of crap? Since you love your Olive Garden analogy, if I'm not a paying customer, do I have the right to tell others not to eat there if I hear on the news that they just served a rat with the veal parmigiana? (which to my knowledge has never happened - just an example).

That's it - my last post too.
Best regards,
Rob

[novakjr]

Agree with Rob...Especially about David's analogies being completely bereft of logic. At their core, they may make some sense, but they leave out key factors for comparison...Stating that White Castle suck without ever having it, is completely different from despising BCCG without having ever submitted a card.. Mostly because the effects of White Castle on the fine dining community cannot be seen firsthand without tasting. However, the effects of BCCG on the hobby can be seen without ever submitting a card to them.. Personally, I do have a handful of modern cards in BCCG 10 holders, but only because they were cheaper than similarly conditioned ungraded copies.. YES! Cheaper than ungraded copies. And then you see the occasional card being run up either because some seller lists it as Beckett graded 10 or BGS 10, or simply because the buyer doesn't know any better...Yes, as I've stated before, the fault ultimately lies with the uninformed buyer, BUT Beckett at the same time can put a stop to this crap....We all know that a few instances like this is all it takes for a beginning or unkowledgable collector to lose interest in the hobby after being burned. And that is not good at all.. YES! I said it. BCCG is contributing to people leaving the hobby. Perhaps even more than the SWG's, MINT's, GEM's, PGI's, and PRO's of the world, because they have a name that should be trusted in Beckett attached to it..

[jwgators]

If they changed the grading scale now in the middle of it all, there would be even more confusion with their grades. Is it a 6 from before they changed the scale or afterwards? How can I tell the difference?

Same BCCG labels, same BCCG number grades, but then the descriptions would be different. it would not help anyone and it would probably ruin their business going forward. You would still have to read the description of the grade below the number, but now you would have two items with the same company (BCCG), same number grade, but with drastically different conditions.

It would have been nice to have a similar grading scale from the get-go, but it would be worse to change it after thousands and thousands of cards have been graded on the original "bad" scale.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by jwgators

If they changed the grading scale now in the middle of it all, there would be even more confusion with their grades. Is it a 6 from before they changed the scale or afterwards? How can I tell the difference?

Same BCCG labels, same BCCG number grades, but then the descriptions would be different. it would not help anyone and it would probably ruin their business going forward. You would still have to read the description of the grade below the number, but now you would have two items with the same company (BCCG), same number grade, but with drastically different conditions.

It would have been nice to have a similar grading scale from the get-go, but it would be worse to change it after thousands and thousands of cards have been graded on the original "bad" scale.

The simple point is "bad scale" is still "bad scale".. Change it or get rid of it...Maybe not the service, but the number system all-together. What's wrong with a slab simply having a grade rather than a number? The number was unnecessary from the start, and honestly only in place so people could see that "10". SGC went from only listing their number scale to also including a PSA equivalent scale on their slabs to help deal with the confusion, so why couldn't BCCG simply get rid of their numbers to clean up the confusion that they caused? Sure the old slabs would still cause some confusion to some people, but wouldn't it be good to at least stop adding to that number of potentially confusing slabbed cards?

[smtjoy]

I think its a huge negative to Beckett and I will not submit nor recommend them because of it. Its a money grab and preys on those with less knowledge of card grading.

[Piratedogcardshows]

I always thought something was off about those slabs.I didnt understand the difference really until this thread.I assumed they were the older,first produced slabs of Beckett.