1951 Mickey Mantle TYPE 1 Photo Used to Create His 1952 TOPPS Card is now at 20K...

[Wymers Auction]

You cannot say that Jake lacks passion!!!

[drc]

I didn't read all the posts, I just came in when I heard someone mention pizza.

[yanks12025]

It'd be pretty funny, if someone then finds a folder with like 100 of these in it.

[perezfan]

As someone who only dabbles in vintage photos, I have a question (and please forgive my ignorance...)

How unlikely is it that others will now surface? With all of the Newspaper companies going belly-up, isn't there a decent chance that more of these will turn up? Aren't there likely more copies stashed away in the archives somewhere?

It's an epic photo, and I understand the importance... But it also seems risky to pay over $50K when we don't really know how many others exist. As an example, Ty Cobb Tobacco Tins were considered to be exceedingly rare (with less than 5 known to exist). They're still rare, but at least 3 - 4 new examples have surfaced, since that one was showered with publicity a couple of years ago.

Would it be out of the question for that to happen in this case?

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by perezfan

As someone who only dabbles in vintage photos, I have a question (and please forgive my ignorance...)

How unlikely is it that others will now surface? With all of the Newspaper companies going belly-up, isn't there a decent chance that more of these will turn up? Aren't there likely more copies stashed away in the archives somewhere?

It's an epic photo, and I understand the importance... But it also seems risky to pay over $50K when we don't really know how many others exist. As an example, Ty Cobb Tobacco Tins were considered to be exceedingly rare (with less than 5 known to exist). They're still rare, but at least 3 - 4 new examples have surfaced, since that one was showered with publicity a couple of years ago.

Would it be out of the question for that to happen in this case?

+1

This kind of money and attention will flush more out into the open.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by perezfan

As someone who only dabbles in vintage photos, I have a question (and please forgive my ignorance...)

How unlikely is it that others will now surface? With all of the Newspaper companies going belly-up, isn't there a decent chance that more of these will turn up? Aren't there likely more copies stashed away in the archives somewhere?

It's an epic photo, and I understand the importance... But it also seems risky to pay over $50K when we don't really know how many others exist. As an example, Ty Cobb Tobacco Tins were considered to be exceedingly rare (with less than 5 known to exist). They're still rare, but at least 3 - 4 new examples have surfaced, since that one was showered with publicity a couple of years ago.

Would it be out of the question for that to happen in this case?

Great point Mark. I love the photo and have zero issue with what the final hammer will be, but whether it's worth the risk that another will pop up down the road is up to the bidders.

On an unrelated note Mark, you have a tremendous collection and you have it displayed very well. Can you tell me where you get those plastic holders for your flat stuff? They're like plate holders, stands, etc? I need a bunch and don't like what I've found so far. thanks.

[Rob D.]

A major daily newspaper I worked at in the mid 1990s had a great library of first-generation and wire photos from the turn of the century. My duties as a copy and layout editor for the Sports department had me pulling file photos on almost a daily basis. You would be shocked at the manilla folders 2, 3 and 4 inches thick dedicated to photos of Cobb, Ruth, Shoeless Joe, etc. Routinely there were multiple photos of the same pose, many in pristine condition. I spent a lot of time browsing those folders.

This was at a newspaper in the South that never had an association with Major League Baseball. I can only imagine what rests in the bowels of newspapers in big-league cities.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

A major daily newspaper I worked at in the mid 1990s had a great library of first-generation and wire photos from the turn of the century. My duties as a copy and layout editor for the Sports department had me pulling file photos on almost a daily basis. You would be shocked at the manilla folders 2, 3 and 4 inches thick dedicated to photos of Cobb, Ruth, Shoeless Joe, etc. Routinely there were multiple photos of the same pose, many in pristine condition. I spent a lot of time browsing those folders.

This was at a newspaper in the South that never had an association with Major League Baseball. I can only imagine what rests in the bowels of newspapers in big-league cities.

Wow. And ouch.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

A major daily newspaper I worked at in the mid 1990s had a great library of first-generation and wire photos from the turn of the century. My duties as a copy and layout editor for the Sports department had me pulling file photos on almost a daily basis. You would be shocked at the manilla folders 2, 3 and 4 inches thick dedicated to photos of Cobb, Ruth, Shoeless Joe, etc. Routinely there were multiple photos of the same pose, many in pristine condition. I spent a lot of time browsing those folders.

This was at a newspaper in the South that never had an association with Major League Baseball. I can only imagine what rests in the bowels of newspapers in big-league cities.

I agree that it's possible that others exist, and a high-profile sale will be the quickest way to flush them out into the open if so. It never ceases to amaze me what scarce/rare items start pouring out of the closets once one sale takes place.

In this case though, the photo being a Type 1 will act as a sort of insulation since, by the time this print was produced, the wire photo process would have been in widespread use. While that doesn't guarantee that this is the only Type 1, it does increase the odds that if/when others do surface, they would be Type 3 wire photos. Even as I write that though, I do note that this photo surfaced was found in the archives of a regional paper (though it does not note which), so perhaps the smaller subscribers still weren't up to date on their technology even though the process had been around for over 15 years at that point? Regardless, my point still stands that for any given 1950's-era photo, the population of Type 3 wire photos is likely to be several times the population of Type 1 original prints of that same image. I can't help but wonder if the writer for Legendary was alluding to this when they said, "This likeness has never before been found in the form of a Type I original image." This makes me think it may have been found as a Type 3, but that is purely conjecture on my part.

Only time will tell as to whether this particular photo holds its value, but I still find the argument of "it's only a photo, I have one of another guy, so it can't be worth more than $50" to be as ludicrous as looking at a Wagner T206 and saying "it's only a baseball card, I have tons of those and used to stick them in my bike spokes so there's no way it's worth that much."

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

A major daily newspaper I worked at in the mid 1990s had a great library of first-generation and wire photos from the turn of the century. My duties as a copy and layout editor for the Sports department had me pulling file photos on almost a daily basis. You would be shocked at the manilla folders 2, 3 and 4 inches thick dedicated to photos of Cobb, Ruth, Shoeless Joe, etc. Routinely there were multiple photos of the same pose, many in pristine condition. I spent a lot of time browsing those folders.

This was at a newspaper in the South that never had an association with Major League Baseball. I can only imagine what rests in the bowels of newspapers in big-league cities.

To a lesser degree, this is probably true for many collectibles (excluding one-of-a-kind items, game used, contracts, awards, etc.) - there is always the possibility of a future "find". In my opinion, what makes photos an important exception is the current Roger's acquisition program which is unlikely to end soon and specifically targets prime sources with huge numbers of vintage photos.

The '51 Mantle image for the '52 Topps card was extensively used in newspaper articles across the country from 1951-53 and to a lesser degree from '53-'55. I have several of these and the captions (or image) are approximately 50-50 between wire photos and first generation. In addition, I have had the good fortune to acquire large photo collections from former sports photographers and sports journalists (and in one case from someone who happened upon a garbage bin outside a major publishing house and simply removed hundreds of photos that had been tossed out). I can confirm what Rob D. posted that even in this modest sampling "there were multiple photos of the same pose, many in pristine condition".

My best guess is that the number of Type 1 photos of the '52 Topps image that exist is probably around 10-15. This number could increase from magazine archives (which typically used multiple prints in the editorial and reference processes). How many of these sources will be a target of acquisition is obviously unknown deceasing the likelihood that any of these will ever surface. On the other hand, as someone has already mentioned, the publicity generated from this sale would likely increase the probability of other examples coming to the market.

As some on this forum know, my primary focus is on early (1949-1951) Type 1 Mantle photos. This is one of the only vintage news service photos of Mickey that I do not have (been looking for almost 25 years now) and, if I had unlimited resources it would be mine.

Finally, I would like to raise again a question that I asked in an earlier post on this thread - Does anyone know what the highest price to date (private or public) ever paid for a baseball photo is?

Thanks,

Craig

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

You cannot say that Jake lacks passion!!!

Good morning fellow lunatics. This is your captain speaking...