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#1
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At the time I'm posting this, Kurt is on the Sports Card Live YouTube Channel
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (133/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (195/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#2
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (133/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (195/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#3
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My takeaway from his comments is that: (1) he uses chemicals; (2) he hasn't researched whether stains or wrinkles will reappear, but he doesn't really think so; (3) screw the haters, because my product is popular.
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#4
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People like this, and like minded people doing similar things, can always justify themselves. Eff him, my two cents.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-13-2024 at 10:07 PM. |
#5
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Before tuning in, I didn’t really care for the product or its impact on the hobby. After listening to roughly 30 minutes, my opinion worsened a bit.
I turned it off shortly thereafter. Kurt just didn’t hold my interest.
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (133/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (195/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#6
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Kurt's Card Care - sounds like where cards are sent when their parents are off at work trying to afford the high cost of having cards in the first place.
Brian |
#7
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It's a big deal and shouldn't be done ever unless it's plain water being used to remove excess foreign material, or from a scrapbook.
There are cards in slabs that were cleaned with chemicals now showing signs years later of regression (stains coming back, creases popping back up etc. And no pressing out creases never truly removes them) and in my opinion pouring chemicals on paper probably accelerates natural deterioration of the paper. Watch Orlandos video of his card he bought that had no stain originally but now shows the nasty stain that was chemically removed years prior. Not to mention the clear loss in clarity that occurs. Sure the cards look brighter, but dramatic detail is lost, again showcased perfectly in Orlandos video. I can see it the most around the subjects face it is almost akin to taking a card that is perfectly focused to slightly out of focus. https://youtu.be/KYCkxXUb9u8
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I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day. My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection Last edited by Lucas00; 04-17-2024 at 01:54 AM. |
#8
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At one point, he holds the PSA graded copy next to the SGC copy and claims that any color differences they have are due to "chemicals" being used on the card (nevermind the fact that the one he claims was altered actually has *better* color). This is of course nonsense. Then he starts talking about how if the stain was present when PSA graded it then they would have given it a 2 and not a 6. Again, this is nonsense and demonstrates remarkable ignorance of PSA's grading standards. They regularly assign 6s to stained cards even to this day. I could post numerous examples of them. Most cards that were removed from scrapbooks like this one were simply removed with water. If the glue is water soluble, it will come out easily with just water. No "harsh chemicals" necessary. If the glue is not water soluble, then you would need a solvent that is so harsh that it would destroy the card. Furthermore, this claim that we don't know the long term effects of soaking cards and that it poses serious risks is also nonsense. People have been soaking cards for more than a century. There is a long established history of the effects of soaking cards. There are millions of soaked cards in slabs. Properly cleaning and soaking cards preserves them. It does not destroy them. There is an entire field dedicated to the preservation and safe restoration techniques of paper artifacts.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#9
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Does anyone else think Kurt is just an outright con artist? He's selling a snake oil potion with a limitless list of magic properties. We'll never hear an honest statement of what's actually in Kurt's Card Care spray, just trust him that it's an elixir to fix the (card) world's problems. Even his devoted followers will admit that a lot of his before and after pictures are nothing more than carefully staged with lighting tricks to hide issues that never really disappear with his treatment. It's akin to magic diet pills where the subject is told to suck in their stomach for the "after" photo.
I suppose as long as he's just conning other con artists it doesn't bother me much, but I'm amazed he has as much of a profile as he does given how much stench there is around his sales tactic (and that's ignoring the ethical discussion about altering, which is a discussion I'm not engaging in again). |
#10
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#11
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Would you characterize me as "shady, deceptive, and disingenuous" on this topic?
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#12
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The before and after pictures that you're referring to where the lighting differs in an effort to make the creases look better than they actually are were taken by his customers, not him. Kurt pretty much always uses the same lighting in his videos and images. If you look closely, you can almost always still see the creases he worked on in his after photos. As for me being a "devoted follower", I like Kurt. I think he's a great guy. But I don't use his card spray when I soak my cards (I did buy a bottle for fun though). And I don't use his polish either, as I don't collect shiny stuff. But people clearly like his products and they clearly work as there are approximately one million cards in slabs that have been worked on using his products. As for him being a con artist? No, that's silly. The guy literally fixes cards live on camera, tells you exactly what he's doing while he's doing it, and then posts the grading results when he's done. He sells a product that works and shows you how to use it. He wouldn't have so many repeat customers if his products didn't work. It's clearly not snake oil. Can you achieve the same results by researching how professional paper restoration experts safely clean documents that are far more important and valuable than our baseball cards? Yes, of course. But most people are too lazy to do the research on their own. Hence he has a large and loyal customer base. People fear what they don't understand. Paper restoration and preservation is a fascinating subject to study. You can learn a lot just by reading.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#13
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-17-2024 at 01:05 PM. |
#14
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Don't insult my intelligence by pretending I don't understand card restoration. I understand it well, I just don't buy the arguments that it's a good thing for the card collecting hobby. Considering the evidence and disagreeing with your position doesn't make me fearful or unintelligent. |
#15
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I know you can chemically preserve paper properly. Kurt's card care isn't the Library of Congress, Does he know what he's doing with his formula? You decide. I would also add preservation of paper chemically is almost always manuscripts and other extremely thin documents. Not colored card stock. I don't think the hall of fame museum is taking in 1880s scrapbook cards and soaking them in kcc. Clearly he has them side by side, one soaked with water and one soaked with chemicals and they are extremely different looking. And the water soaked looks exactly the same as the card that never touched water. I'm talking with someone who openly does this to cards. So I wouldn't expect you to take my side. Shame that Gherig wasn't an easy Kcc job and just had a little stain that you could've soaked chemically and turned into a 3 and resold it for $2000 more without saying anything. Edit: seeing you said you'd never sell it on the other thread. We all know every collection goes to the grave! Lol.
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I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day. My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection Last edited by Lucas00; 04-17-2024 at 11:58 AM. |
#16
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#17
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Thing is, you don't know what you are doing, for chemically cleaning something historic you would need decades of research, testing and professional chemists aiding you. You'll just be kurt pt 2.
Imagine like I said earlier (you ignored about 90% of my response) if the hof museum got a card with a caramel stain they wanted to preserve, I'll tell you what they aren't doing, putting Kcc on it. Also you keep referencing cleaned cards as "My cards" implying you have never sold one you've cleaned. Another point you you've dodged numerous times. I'm probably the pope if that's the truth. Ask your friend Jonah how that went.
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I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day. My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection Last edited by Lucas00; 04-18-2024 at 02:47 AM. |
#18
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Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end of this madness.
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WTB E105 Mello Mint: Bemis, Bender (White Hat), Bridwell, Crawford, Dooin, Doolan, Dougherty, Magee, McLean, Schlei, Seigle, Smith, Tinker, Wagner (Throwing), Zimmerman I would also like to upgrade these E105s to a numerically graded example: Bender (Striped Hat), Gibson, Mathewson |
#19
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But I was told PSA is fine with Kurt’s and doesn’t care and that’s part of why it’s not altering!
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#20
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Like Bogart, you were misinformed.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#21
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I'm shocked, shocked to find that lying and fraud is going on in here!
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#22
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Spoken like a true BS artist. I think they just did call you.
Colone said he's surprised PSA officials haven't called him to talk. "I come in peace and I'm really open minded," Colone said. "Let's exchange practices and data with each other."
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-20-2024 at 10:41 PM. |
#23
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Kurt used to cover the cert number in the videos. Did he get too brazen, or was it laziness?
The best card cleaners don't youtube that kinda thing in the first place... Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
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Neal Successful transactions with Brian Dwyer, Peter Spaeth, raulus, ghostmarcelle, Howard Chasser, jewishcollector, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others |
#24
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I am sure PSA has banned him from submitting and there is a good chance they might have deactivated more of his submissions. I am not a fan of deactivating submissions or cards unless PSA is in possession of those cards who certs they are deactivating.
Most people do not check cert numbers on PSA's site prior to buying a PSA graded card so they have no idea they are buying something that PSA no longer recognizes as a legit card but they have put out legit money. The burden is then on the buyer to track down the person they bought it from to get a refund. GL with that. And let's not think PSA deactivated those certs to keep the market clean and protect buyers. And if they did ban Kurt that too was not done to protect buyers. They do these things to anyone who embarrasses them.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#25
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Did they decertify the Wemby 1/1? That thing is forever tainted, at least for the next few days ... after that, stuff is usually forgotten Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
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Neal Successful transactions with Brian Dwyer, Peter Spaeth, raulus, ghostmarcelle, Howard Chasser, jewishcollector, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others |
#26
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I heard someone (the submitter or someone with the submitter) in the lobby at PSA after they handed him/them the card back, did a shout out to Kurt's Card Care. If that is the basis for people saying it should be deactivated, that is weak, imo. Again, PSA and all TPG, need to catch stuff. If they cannot catch stuff then, put a W in the card doctor's column. Maybe there is nothing to detect...at the time of grading.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#27
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In the 70's, when collecting was so much simpler, we did have a guy who was known for pressing out wrinkles on cards, and he sold them at our local card shows. If someone was interested in a card that he pressed the wrinkles out, he always made buyers aware (we actually all knew him as the winkle guy), and he never charged more money than what the card would have been worth with wrinkles.
I didn't really think much of that being a bad thing back then. I'm sure more things were being done to cards back then, but never really thought much of it. Today, this is crazy what's being done. So many cards being soaked, trimmed, re-colored, pressed out, etc., so I can see why the true card collectors are angry over it. Sad.
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Successful NET54 transactions: robw1959, Tyruscobb |
#28
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I can imagine something similar to the "greening" issue with '90s Finest/Chrome cards.
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (133/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (195/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra Last edited by Eric72; 04-21-2024 at 09:16 PM. |
#29
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IMO, Kurt and his magic spray is a nothing burger for PSA and if cards start decomposing in the holders or whatever, we can send them in for review and I will bet the graders will stand behind the grades.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#30
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Be sure to subscribe to my YouTube Channel, The Stuff Of Greatness. New videos are uploaded every week... https://www.youtube.com/@tsogreatness/videos Last edited by perezfan; 04-22-2024 at 01:53 PM. |
#31
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One can only imagine that if that does happen, the same reason will be given as what is said for newer baseballs with graded gem mint 10 signatures whose autographs fade over the years. "It looked different when we saw it.". Exactly the same. Easy does it. Two completely different situations, both "rationalized" using the same excuse.
Last edited by BillyCoxDodgers3B; 04-22-2024 at 01:58 PM. |
#32
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“EXPLOSIVE INTERVIEW: PSA President Ryan Hoge on Card Cleaning, New Slabs, AI Grading & More!”
Skip ahead to 38:38 for the card cleaning question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfuICkhi4s
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WTB E105 Mello Mint: Bemis, Bender (White Hat), Bridwell, Crawford, Dooin, Doolan, Dougherty, Magee, McLean, Schlei, Seigle, Smith, Tinker, Wagner (Throwing), Zimmerman I would also like to upgrade these E105s to a numerically graded example: Bender (Striped Hat), Gibson, Mathewson |
#33
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I think most on this forum agree with Ryan's take on cleaning cards, me included.
Quote:
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Leon Luckey |
#34
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#35
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Great video and spot on!
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Successful Transactions with Neal, RGold, Peter_Spaeth, jcc6252, Brian_Dwyer, Jay_Wolt, Clydewally, bauce, Prince_Hal, ncinin, gonzo, PiratesWS1979, ZiggerZagger, Anthony + Al |
#36
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Leon Luckey |
#37
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (133/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (195/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#38
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31:30 Hoge discusses providing grader notes 38:40 Card cleaning 42:30 SGC acquisition I have never seen the man before, but he seems approachable and fairly transparent throughout the interview. |
#39
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31:30 Hoge discusses providing grader notes 38:40 Card cleaning 42:30 SGC acquisition I have never seen the man before, but he seems approachable and transparent throughout the interview. |
#40
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Not sure if these have been posted before. Safety data sheets for Kurt's spray and polish. I guess these at least reveal the secret ingredients?
https://www.kurtscardcare.com/_files...cc7ae243b2.pdf https://www.kurtscardcare.com/_files...81e102e472.pdf
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-05-2024 at 11:54 PM. |
#41
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For those unaware, every card manufacturer uses rubbing alcohol to clean up stray ink marks on signed cards when they get them back from the athletes after having them sign. They literally sit there with a q-tip and a bottle of rubbing alcohol, cleaning them up one by one. The cards often come back with all sorts of marks and smudges from the athletes stacking them while the ink is still wet.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#42
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He should have never shown that cert!
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
__________________
Neal Successful transactions with Brian Dwyer, Peter Spaeth, raulus, ghostmarcelle, Howard Chasser, jewishcollector, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others |
#43
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__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day. My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection |
#44
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-06-2024 at 09:49 AM. |
#45
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Rubbing alcohol/ethanol/etc isn't the most concerning thing, it's the detergent/surfactant(s) that concerns me.
Those generally stick around to whatever they're applied to and can cause everything from a surface that is prone to environmental staining to a negative effect on the bonding of fibers in the paper/cellulose. It can also effect the moisture content of the fibers (and between fibers) which are effects that won't show up until many years/decades later. Using the 2nd chemical "polish" just compounds the possible issues by locking in the detergent/surfactant into the card. |
#46
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I had this interaction on eBay for a card I sold.
![]() ![]() ![]() Fortunately it’s his card now, not mine. This card was already compromised from a chemical cleaning (not cleaned by me, and it was sold slabbed SGC Altered). This guy cracked it and wanted a refund after it was ruined.
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. || || \/ If you want a deal, you might not get a card. If you want a card, you might not get a deal. |
#47
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I like the part in the document where it says the chemical used should be in a well ventilated area. Not exactly the best conditions in a literal air tight sealed case with a centimeter of total space for air lol. How can you even argue with that.
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day. My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection Last edited by Lucas00; 12-06-2024 at 02:23 PM. |
#48
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I think that pertains to minimizing the hazard of inhaling it?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#49
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No clue. But in any case, I wouldn't want that on my card.
__________________
I have done deals with many of the active n54ers. Sometimes I sell cool things that you don't see every day. My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection |
#50
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You need to drink the card bro Kool Aid.
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-06-2024 at 02:44 PM. |
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