So what was the big meeting all about last night at the national with JP & Marshall?

[calvindog]

I'll get to the National again, I promise. I spent 15 mins on it earlier this morning.

[barrysloate]

99.9% overweight and misshapen...

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

99.9% overweight and misshapen...

Grotesque oddities.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Grotesque oddities.

Being someone who tips the scales at about 150 pounds, I was always fascinated by the girth of some of these guys. Don't they ever say "no" to that second helping of apple pie?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not everyone can be an ascetic.

[barrysloate]

Returning to more serious matters, the problem with forming a group of dealers to police the hobby is the ones who agree to join are generally the honest and ethical ones, and those who operate below the radar will not join.

So how will this proposed group deal with the card doctors, autograph forgers, and general miscreants who will still conduct business a usual?

[bigtrain]

Are we talking about a group of dealers led by a convicted felon and his friends?
Maybe the hobby needs a Commissioner. I nominate Jeff.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Returning to more serious matters, the problem with forming a group of dealers to police the hobby is the ones who agree to join are generally the honest and ethical ones, and those who operate below the radar will not join.

So how will this proposed group deal with the card doctors, autograph forgers, and general miscreants who will still conduct business a usual?

Net 54ers notwithstanding, I think that the issue of fraud in the hobby is not fully appreciated by a wide range of collectors. If, however, indictments and convictions stem from the current investigation and are well publicized, then collectors generally should become sensitive to these problems.

Then, assuming a strong and vibrant association of ethical dealers (auction houses/authenticators/graders) is established and becomes recognized by collectors, those who decline to join should over time be driven from the hobby.

Another problem arises obviously if it is the dealers with a checkered past who attempt to associate. The system will only work, in my view, where a strong code of ethics can be established and enforced.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'll get to the National again, I promise. I spent 15 mins on it earlier this morning.

A nation waits breathlessly.

[carrigansghost]

My girlfriend is waiting with great anticipation. I hope Wonka is working on it already.

Rawn

[iggyman]

Thought I would include this link in here for prosperity (just in case man-kind is completely wiped-out by aliens, at least "they" (the aliens) might stumble across this thread and realize which of the two sexes was more intelligent (oh, and in the event that a male alien is reading this; please see Rob D.'s Helen Reddy post in the women thread for the answer).

http://mddailyrecord.com/maryland-bu...rs-convention/

If you don't want to read it, here is the jist.................Bill Huggins says Trade Association for Auction Houses only. I realize it's yesterdays news, but I could live with that (as long as it doesn't cost me $$$ - yeah right!). Here is the quote:


Bill Huggins, of Huggins & Scott Auctions in Silver Spring, said business has been steady and that he’d bought and sold several select items already that day.

In response to the FBI investigation, he said one thing the industry could use is a national association. Since the first convention 30 years ago, he said sports collecting has gone from a hobby to a full-blown industry with no national oversight. He said forming a national association has been tried twice in the past but that coordinating thousands of dealers and collectors was no simple feat.

Huggins added it was likely a national association could be set up for auction houses, as it’s much easier to get the dozen or so across the country to agree on terms than it is to get thousands of dealers to reach a majority.


Lovely Day...

[Exhibitman]

Ah, yes, just as Sotheby's and Christie's agreed on terms. Er, on second thought, perhaps not quite like that...

U.S. Department of Justice Seal and Letterhead
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 5, 2000
WWW.USDOJ.GOV AT
(202) 514-2007
TDD (202) 514-1888


SOTHEBY'S AND FORMER TOP EXECUTIVE AGREE TO PLEAD GUILTY TO
PRICE FIXING ON COMMISSIONS CHARGED TO SELLERS AT AUCTIONS

Sotheby's Agrees to Pay $45 Million Criminal Fine

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Sotheby's Holdings Inc.--one of the world's largest auction houses--has agreed to plead guilty and pay a $45 million criminal fine for fixing the price of commission rates charged to sellers of art, antiques, and other collectibles at auctions, announced the Department of Justice today. The company's former president and chief executive officer, Diana D. Brooks, has also agreed to plead guilty to price fixing charges, and will cooperate with the Department's ongoing antitrust investigation.

In separate one-count felony charges filed today in the U.S. District Court in Manhattan, Sotheby's and Brooks were charged with participating in a conspiracy lasting more than six years, from April 1993 to December 1999, to suppress and eliminate competition by fixing prices in violation of the Sherman Act. The conspirators also agreed to limit or eliminate other inducements to sellers, such as interest-free loans and charitable donations.

Sotheby's and Christie's International, its chief competitor, control more than 90 percent of the world's auction business. They provide substantially the same services to sellers and, prior to the introduction of the fixed, non-negotiable commission rates, they competed primarily on the basis of price, undercutting each other's offers to sellers. As a result of the conspiracy, sellers lost their principal bargaining tool.

"Those charged today were engaged in classic cartel behavior*price fixing, pure and simple," said A. Douglas Melamed, Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Antitrust Division. "These are serious crimes, and the Antitrust Division will prosecute them wherever they occur."

Today's cases, the first to arise out of a federal investigation into auction house collusion, charge that Sotheby's, Brooks and their co-conspirators carried out the conspiracy by participating in meetings and conversations in the United States and elsewhere to discuss sellers' commissions. At those meetings the conspirators:

* agreed to raise pricing by fixing sellers' commissions;

* agreed to publish non-negotiable sellers' commission rate schedules;

* agreed to the order in which each co-conspirator would publish its non-negotiable sellers' commission schedule;

* issued sellers' commission schedules in accordance with the agreements reached;

* exchanged customer information for the purpose of monitoring and enforcing adherence to the non-negotiable seller's commission schedules;

* agreed not to make interest-free loans on consignments from sellers; and

* agreed not to make charitable contributions as part of pricing to sellers.

This pricing scheme impaired the ability of sellers to achieve the best price terms through negotiation, as had been possible under the conspirators' previous commission structures.

The Department also confirmed the announcement by Christie's International, one of the world's largest auction houses, that it has been cooperating with the investigation under the Antitrust Division's Corporate Leniency Program. Under the Leniency Program, a company may qualify for protection from criminal prosecution if it voluntarily reports its involvement in a crime and satisfies certain other criteria.

Sotheby's and Brooks are charged with violating Section One of the Sherman Act which carries a maximum fine of $10 million for corporations, and a maximum penalty of three years imprisonment and a $350,000 fine for individuals. The maximum fine for both corporations and individuals may be increased to twice the gain derived from the crime or twice the loss suffered by the victims of the crime, if either of those amounts is greater than the statutory maximum fine.

Sotheby's $45 million fine, which is payable over five years, is subject to court approval. Brooks' sentence will be determined by the court.

Sotheby's Holdings Inc. is headquartered in New York, New York and provides auction services worldwide. Its revenues from sellers' commissions during the period charged in the court papers were in excess of $225 million in the U.S.

The ongoing investigation of the auction business is being conducted by the Antitrust Division's New York Office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Anyone with information concerning collusion in the auction business should contact the Antitrust Division's New York Office at (212) 264-0650 or the New York Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation at (212) 384-1000.

[calvindog]

Very simple way to accomplish this: all bidders and auction houses would agree to open their bidding records to an independent auditor for review. Also, all IP info from all computers which placed bids would also be disclosed. Sounds unweildly (and it might be) but it's at least a start in combatting shill bidding.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Very simple way to accomplish this: all bidders and auction houses would agree to open their bidding records to an independent auditor for review. Also, all IP info from all computers which placed bids would also be disclosed. Sounds unweildly (and it might be) but it's at least a start in combatting shill bidding.

I must have missed something. Who, besides legitimate bidders, said they want to combat shill bidding?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Very simple way to accomplish this: all bidders and auction houses would agree to open their bidding records to an independent auditor for review. Also, all IP info from all computers which placed bids would also be disclosed. Sounds unweildly (and it might be) but it's at least a start in combatting shill bidding.

And how do you propose to combat the real problem, card doctoring?

[calvindog]

That's a tougher nut to crack, for sure.

[arexcrooke]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And how do you propose to combat the real problem, card doctoring?

When you talk about card doctoring, what do you mean?
Ive recently moved from comics to cards again and I am aware of the things that go on in comics.
However, I have no clue as to what card doctoring is, what is done, etc.
Im trying to figure out what this thread is about and also who these people are. ive got this link http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...ANE+FULL+STORY
to read and anymore like it will be a help