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  #1  
Old 09-07-2020, 03:59 PM
danf19 danf19 is offline
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Default Zeenut checklists

I've been running a search on the Zeenuts and looking for checklists for each year with the various variations. Seen a bit of good information here and there but no site listing a checkilist for each year. I'll keep looking but did I miss the obvious somewhere ??
thanks
Dan
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2020, 06:26 PM
oaks1912 oaks1912 is offline
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The Standard Catalog list is a good starting point (You can buy an outdated version for about $10 plus shipping), as is the 1977 Jim Horne booklet, however none of the published checklists are complete, primarily with regards to variations. When you start approaching 3500 different Zeenuts, the advanced collectors will step in and help you
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  #3  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaks1912 View Post
The Standard Catalog list is a good starting point (You can buy an outdated version for about $10 plus shipping), as is the 1977 Jim Horne booklet, however none of the published checklists are complete, primarily with regards to variations. When you start approaching 3500 different Zeenuts, the advanced collectors will step in and help you
I would be curious how many collectors approach 3500 Zeenut cards. My guess is a few fingers or so...but I might not know of the old collectors out there whom are behind the scenes.
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  #4  
Old 09-28-2020, 04:03 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I would be curious how many collectors approach 3500 Zeenut cards. My guess is a few fingers or so...but I might not know of the old collectors out there whom are behind the scenes.
I've been working on gathering as many scans of Zeenuts with coupons to help establish years, especially from 1932 through 1937.

A couple of questions:

The 1933 sepia are often catalogued a a separate set from the 1933-36 listings. Like several from the 1933-36 catalogued set, these all have coupon expiration dates of April 1st 1934. I think the April 1st 1934's were are issued at the same time (thus actually the same set). What do you think?

One Zeenut set is catalogued as 1937-38, but all I've seen have coupon expiration dates of Oct 30th 1937. Has anyone seen a later expiration date? Where did the 1938 date come from?

I am especially interested in scans of Zeenuts with coupon expiration dates of April 1st 1935, April 1st 1936 and Oct 1st 1936. Would appreciate more. Thanks, Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 09-28-2020 at 04:04 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-28-2020, 04:33 PM
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Michael-

The 1938s had a coupon that was not attached to the card - hence you will not find a tabbed example of such. The coupon, IIRC, was inserted alongside the card in the confection
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  #6  
Old 09-28-2020, 04:36 PM
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I reckon that there are probably fewer than ten folks that have the vast majority of tabbed Zeenuts from the 1933-1936 timeframe. I further imagine that at least one or two of them has a fairly robust checklist based upon year of issue. But most of those folks are the series "completists" who are working on the 3,500+ series and for them the delineation is not as important. The variations in the 1933-1936 series are generally widely known (and indicated in the Horne book), and it's mostly from there a question of finding tabbed examples where they exist to get the specific year.

As far as I know, not all of the variations from the 1933-1936 timeframe are known to exist with a tab. Obviously some of the more notable ones are, like Joe D
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2020, 01:13 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaks1912 View Post
The Standard Catalog list is a good starting point (You can buy an outdated version for about $10 plus shipping), as is the 1977 Jim Horne booklet, however none of the published checklists are complete, primarily with regards to variations. When you start approaching 3500 different Zeenuts, the advanced collectors will step in and help you
Mark,

I'm surprised you have never put together a collection of images of the 1930's Zeenut cards so that the confusion between the similarity of issues can be resolved. That's been sorely missing for over forty years. I expect to have a complete break down of those issues, year by year within the next few months, showing what pictures go with what dates. Can you tell me where the 1938 year came from for those cards catalogued as 1937-38 Zeenuts?
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  #8  
Old 09-29-2020, 01:19 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philliesphan View Post
Michael-

The 1938s had a coupon that was not attached to the card - hence you will not find a tabbed example of such. The coupon, IIRC, was inserted alongside the card in the confection
If this is the coupon you are referring to, then it is a help. Once the 1933 through 1937 cards are identified by date on a coupon, the distinction of the 1938 cards wil become apparent.



Mike
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2020, 01:33 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philliesphan View Post
. . . The variations in the 1933-1936 series are generally widely known (and indicated in the Horne book), and it's mostly from there a question of finding tabbed examples where they exist to get the specific year.
Here's the problem, even the grading companies get it wrong or don't address the variation issue. In the three scans below, which is the "large pose" card?







Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 09-29-2020 at 01:34 AM.
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  #10  
Old 09-29-2020, 07:06 AM
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Last one is the“large” pose. Many of the size variations are very subtle. In this case if you measured the length of Almada’s image top of head to tip of foot I imagine the length would be different than the other two (but you can’t do that in a scan). Also, how much clearance between top of head and top of card (but this is problematic because it can be off if the card is miscut or trimmed).

Generally what I try to do is look at the background of the image and see if there are differences in what is included in the image (ie the cropping). In the case of Almada there is a second ballplayer in the background at far left of the first 2 examples while the 3rd example pictured that player has been cropped out of the image... thus the entire image has been ever so slightly “zoomed in” resulting in a “larger image”
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  #11  
Old 09-29-2020, 11:35 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhettyeakley View Post
Last one is the “large” pose. Many of the size variations are very subtle. . . .
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbE..._as=subscriber
rhettyeakley,

You know your Zeenuts. Obviously from the pictures I provided, PSA misidentified the card as a "large pose" and SCG didn't care which year it was issued -- to SCG it's just a generic 1933-36 Zeenut.

You've hit the nail on the head. There are no good picture guides that distinguish the subtle differences of many similar cards by the year in which they were issued from 1933 through 1936.

To All,

While I have a long way to go, over the past couple of weeks I have put together pictures of about 135 different 1933-36 Zeenuts with coupons that expire April 1st 1934 (issued in 1933), April 1st 1935 (issued in 1934), April 1st 1936 (issued in 1935) or Oct 1st 1936 (issued in 1936).

If people are willing to help, perhaps we can put together an on-line guide of each player's card from this period (1933-36) with scans showing each separate date of issue.

I am willing to post a list of the scans by player name and coupon expiry date I have so that net54baseball readers can post scans of cards with coupons not on that list. It can then be all put together.

What do you think? Is it worth a try? At least, we can resolve the dates of issue of the subtle yearly differences in many of these 1933-36 cards. It's a start.

Let me know what you think.

To rhettyeakley,

I found your video on-line a couple of days ago while looking for more info on Zeenuts and enjoyed it. Nice cards, tough set. Still looking for a 1911 Western Playground Association card.

Mike
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2020, 07:14 PM
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Default Hi Mike

Mike-

I have over fifty tabbed Zeenuts from 1933-1937 and would be willing to help with. your project should you receive interest from a few other collectors
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2020, 09:39 PM
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Below is a list of the 1933-36 cards that were confirmed with coupons, and thus year of issue, in the late 1970's by Jim Horne in his published Zeenut listing. I have transferred that information in a different format as seen on the list, which shows each subject and has four columns, one for each year 1933 through 1936, and indicated within that column whether card had been confirmed. I have it by year, and then sorted by team (as it is the Horne list).

There are bound to be numerous additions to this list since then...please let us know if you have any coupon cards not seen on the list. As you can see, very few had been found for the 1933 Black & White issue at the time, and beside for three Oakland players, all 1936 found were either from the Missions or the Seals. The astericks seen below are for those cards that have been confirmed after Horne's list by an advanced collector. The ones that indicate 'possibly small or large' are ones that size variations have been discovered after Horne's list was published, so size variation of confirmed coupon is not known, at least not to me.

Brian


1933 - coupon states "This offer expires April 1st, 1934."

-Mission-
Coscarart
Hafey (small)*

-Portland-
Blackerby
A.E. Jacobs

-Seals-
Cavaney, Mgr.
Davis


1934 - coupon states "This offer expires April 1st, 1935."

-Hollywood-
Carlyle
Durst
Haney
Johns
Page
Vitt

-Los Angeles-
Dittmar
Oglesby
Reese (large)
Stitzel

-Mission-
Chelini
Eckhardt (large)
Fitzpatrick
Hafey (large)
T. Pillette (possibly small or large)

-Oakland-
DeViveiros
Glaister
Joiner
Kintana (small)
McEvoy (small)
McIsaacs
Mailho
Mulligan (hands cut off)
Phebus
Pool (possibly small or large)
Salinsen

-Portland-
Cox
Kallio
Palmisano
Sheely (large)

-Sacramento-
Borja (possibly small or large)
Donovan
Hartwig (large)
Horne
House
Kampouris
Lahman
Ostenberg
Salvo
Steinbacker (large)

-Seals-
Backer
Ballou (socks with band - large)
J. Dimaggio (batting)
Douglas
Fenton
Henderson
Herrmann
Mails (large)
Sever
Stutz (bag visible)
Sulik
Woodall (throwing - large)

-Seattle-
Biongovanni
Coscarart
Holland
E. Kelly
Muller
Radonitz


1935 - coupon states "This offer expires April 1st, 1936."

-Hollywood-
Carlyle
Jolly

-Los Angeles-
Reese (small)
Statz (possibly small or large)

-Mission-
Almada (large)
Beck
Duggan (probably large)
Eckhardt (small)
Hafey (medium)
Mitchell
Mort (throwing)
Nicholas
Outen (throwing)
Street, Mgr.
Thurston (Mission)
Wright (facing forward)

-Oakland-
Anton (large)
Connors
Douglas (small)
Haid
E.Kelly
Kintana (large)
Ludolph
McEvoy (large)
McMullen
Mailho (possibly small or large)
Muller (large)
Mulligan (hands visible)
Ramondi (small)
Rego
Vitt, Mgr.
Walsh

-Sacramento-
Borja (possibly small or large)
Ellsworth
Hartwig (small)
Salvo
Steinbacker (small)
Stroner
Wirts (small)

-Seals-
Ballou (socks w/band -small)
Becker
Cole (glove on hand)
J. Dimaggio (throwing)
Densmore
Garibaldi (large)
Gibson (white sleeves)
Mails (large)
Marty (white sleeves)
Masucci
Monzo (small)
Newkirk
Norbert (large)
O'Doul (white sleeves)
Powers
Rhyne (side view - foot high)*
Sheehan (white sleeves)
Stitzel
Stutz (no bag in background)
Zinn


1936 - coupon states "This offer expires October 1st, 1936."

-Missions (this year only year designated as "Missions")-
Almada (small)
C.Beck
W.Beck
Francovich
D.Johnson
L.Johnson
Joost
Kamm, Mgr.
Mort (batting)
Nitcholas
Outen (batting)
Rosenberg
Sprinz
Stewart
Stitzel
Stoneham
Thurston (Missions)
West
Wright (looking left)

-Oakland-
Anton (small)
Douglas (large)
Muller (small)

-Seals-
Ballou (socks all black)
Barath
Borja
Cole (no glove)
Gibson (black sleeves)
Gira
Graves
B.Holder
Jorgensen
Mails (small)
Marty (black sleeves)
Masucci
Monzo (large)
Norbert (small)
O'Doul (black sleeves)
Rhyne (side view - foot low)
Salkeld
Sheehan (black sleeves)
Starritt
Woodall (batting)
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2020, 02:51 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
Below is a list of the 1933-36 cards that were confirmed with coupons, and thus year of issue, in the late 1970's by Jim Horne in his published Zeenut listing.
To brianp-beme and all,

Your posting of the listing is quite useful. It helps establish the year of issue of many cards that do not have variations and further gives specific years for those that do.

I know Horne, et al, did a lot of work to identify the various poses and picture variations, but without actual pictures I don't think we can fully rely on the conclusions reached.

For example, the list says the Larry Woodall (Seals) with coupon that expires April 1st 1985 is the "large" pose. Comparing my Woodall that has an April 1st 1986 expiry date with one that expires on April 1st 1985 makes clear that the 1986 is the "large" pose and the 1985 is the "small" one.

Yes, they didn't have a Woodall coupon with a 1986 date, but like us they had access to most of the known card variations without coupons. Thus new varieties are few and far between. The question is which variety goes to which of the yearly sets Zeenut issued during this period.

Horne's list contains many couponed cards for which I do not have scans and perhaps these will get posted. I have only a few he didn't list. Maybe more will turn up, but again most of the known variations were know back then.

- - -

Comparing coupon listing in Jim Horne's Zeenut Listing of confirmed coupons in the late 1970's with mine. If an “*” is in front of player's name, the card is on both lists and I have scan. If a “ ? “ is in front of player's name, have no scan but it's on Horne's list. If a player's name is underlined, I have scan, but its not in Horne's list. “Small” and “Large” pose indications are from Horne and need to be verified.

PLEASE POST SCANS OF THE FRONT SIDE OF ANY COUPONED CARD THAT HAS A “ ? ” IN FRONT OF THE PLAYER'S NAME AND ANY OTHER CARDS NOT LISTED. [Of course, if the back side has markings from Collins-McCarthy post that too, otherwise the backs are essentially all the same except for condition.]

1933-36 Zeenuts (coupons expire April 1st 1934, April 1st 1935, April 1st 1936, and Oct 1st 1936).

Coupon expires April 1st 1934

? Blackerby (Portland) (with Portland 1933-35)
? Cavaney (Seals, Mgr.) [note: have April 1st 1935 Caveney not listed in Horne]
* Coscarart (Mission) (with Missions 1930 through first part of 1933, then Seattle for last half of 1933 and all 1934)
? Davis, Curt (Seals) (with Seals 1929-1933)
? Hafey (Mission) (small) (Bud Hafey with Missions 1930-1934, Tom Hafey with Missions 1934-35)
? Jacobs, A.J. "Art" (Portland) (with Portland 1932-33)

Coupon expires April 1st 1935

* Backer (Seals)
* Ballou, William (Seals)
? Biongovani (Seattle)
* Borja (Boroja), Tony (Sacramento)
* Carlyle, Cleo (Hollywood) dated 1935 or 1936
Caveney, Jim (Seals)
? Chelini (Mission)
? Coscarart (Seattle)
? Cox (Portland)
* DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Joe (Seals) batting
? DeViveiros (Oakland)
? Dittmar (Los Angeles)
?Donovan (Sacramento)
* Douglas, Ken (Seals)
? Durst (Hollywood)
* Eckhardt, Ox (Mission) April 1st 1935, shoe partially cut off by white border at bottom (need better scan)
? Fenton (Seals)
* Fitzpatrick (Mission)
*Gibson, Sam (Seals) white sleeves, lifted shoe is solid black below white sock
? Glaister (Oakland)
? Hafey, Tom (Mission)
? Haney (Hollywood)
? Hartwig (Sacramento) (large)
* Henderson, Bill (Seals)
* Herrmann, Leroy (Seals)
* Horne, Berlyn (Sacramento)
* House, Andy (Sacramento)
Hunt, Art (Seals)
? Johns (Hollywood)
? Joiner (Oakland)
? Kallio (Portland)
* Kampouris (Sacramento)
? Kelly, E. (Seattle)
? Lahman (Sacramento)
* Mailho, Ernie (Oakland)
* Mails, Walter (Seals)
? McEvoy (Oakland) (small)
? McIsaacs (Oakland)
McMullen (Seals)
* Mulligan, Eddie (Oakland) hands not showing
? Muller (Seattle)
? Oglesby (Los Angeles)
? Ostenberg (Saccramento)
* Page (Hollywood)
* Palmisano (Portland)
? Phebus (Oakland)
* Pillette, Ted (Mission)
* Pool (Oakland)
* Radonitz (Seattle)
? Reese (Los Angeles) (large)
? Salvo (Sacramento)
* Sever, Carl (Seals)
? Salinsen (Oakland)
? Sheely (Portland) (large)
* Stitzel, Hal (Los Angeles)
? Steinbacker (Sacramento) (large)
* Stutz, Ed (Seals) bag visible
* Sulik, Ernie (Seals)
* Vitt, Oscar (Hollywood, Mgr)
* Woodall, Larry (Seals) throwing (this is the small pose, actually April 1st 1936 is the large pose)

Coupon expires April 1st 1936

* Almada, Lou (Mission)
* Anton, Leroy (Oakland) (large)
* Ballou, William (Seals) (socks w/band - small)
? Beck (Mission)
* Becker, Joe (Seals)
* Borga (Boroja), Tony (Sacramento)
? Carlyle (Hollywood)
* Cole, Albert (Seals) with glove on hnnd
* Connors, Merv (Oakland)
* DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Joe (Seals) throwing
* Densmore, Jim (Seals)
* Douglas, Ken (Oakland) (small)
* Duggan, Mickey (Mission)
* Eckhardt, Ox (Mission), full shoe clear of border at bottom (small)
* Ellsworth, Floyd (Sacramento)
* Garibaldi, Art (Seals)
* Gibson, Sam (Seals) white sleeves, lifted shoe shows white “lacings”
* Hafey, Tom (Mission)
* Haid, Hal (Oakland)
* Hartwig (Sacramento) (small)
? Jolly (Hollywood)
* Kelly, Ernie (Oakland)
* Kintana, Leo (Oakland)
* Ludolph, Willie (Oakland)
* Mailho, Ernie (Oakland) possibly large or small
* Mails, Walter (Seals) (large)
* Marty, Joe (Seals) white sleeves
* Massuci, Tony (Seals)
* McEvoy, Lou (Oakland)
* McMullen (Oakland)
? Mitchell (Mission)
* Monzo, Vince (Seals)
* Mort, Roy (Mission) throwing
? Muller (Oakland) (large)
* Mulligan, Eddie (Oakland) hands showing
* Newkirk, Floyd (Seals)
? Nicholas (Mission)
* O'Doul, Lefty (seals) white sleeves
? Outen (Missioin) throwing
* Powers, Les (Seals)
? Ramondi (Oakland)
? Reese (Los Angeles)
* Rego, Jim (Oakland)
? Rhyne (Seals) (side view – foot high)
* Salvo, Manny (Sacramento)
* Sheehan, Ken (Seals) white sleeves
* Statz, Arnold 'Jigger' (Los Angeles)
* Steinbacker, Hank (Sacramento)
* Stitzel, Hal (Seals)
* Street, Charles (Mission, Mgr)
* Stutz, Ed (Seals) (no bag in background)
? Stroner (Sacramento)
* Thurston, Hollie (Mission)
* Vitt, Oscar (Oakland, Mgr)
* Walsh, Ed (Oakland)
* Wirts, Elwood (Sacramento)
Woodall, Larry (Seals)
* Wright, Al (Mission)
? Zinn (Seals)

Coupon expires Oct 1st 1936

* Almada, Lou (Mission) (specifically not “Missions” but “Mission”, most others of this series are plural)
? Anton (Oakland) (small)
* Ballou, William (Seals) (socks all black)
* Barath, Steve (Seals)
* Beck, C. (Missions)
? Beck, W. (Missions)
* Borja (Boroja), Tony (Seals)
* Cole, Albert (Seals) no glove
? Douglas (Oakland) (large)
* Francovich (Missions)
* Gibson, Sam (Seals) black sleeves
* Gira, Frank (Seals)
* Graves, Jim (Seals)
* Holder, Brooks (Seals)
? Johnson, D. (Missions)
* Johnson, Lloyd (Missions)
* Joost (Missions)
* Jorgensen, Jolly (Seals)
? Kamm (Missions, Mgr)
* Mails, Walter (Seals) (small)
* Marty, Joe (Seals) black sleeves
* Massuci, Tony (Seals)
* Monzo, Vince (Seals)
* Mort, Roy (Missons) batting
? Muller (Oakland)
* Nitcholas (Missions)
? Norbert (Seals) (small)
* O'Doul, Lefty (Seals) black sleeves
* Outen, Chink (Missions) batting
* Rhyne, Hal (Seals)
* Rosenberg, Harry (Missions)
* Salkeld (Seals)
* Sheehan, Ken (Seals)
? Sprinz (Missions)
* Starritt (Seals)
* Stewart (Missions)
*Stitzel, Hal (seals)
* Stoneham (Missions)
*Thurston, Hollis (Missions)
* Woodall, Larry (Seals) batting
* Wright, Al (Missions) (looking left)

Please note, for each player card listed above with a " ? " in front of the player's name, we a picture / scan of the front side of the Zeenut card with coupon attached. These cards are grouped according to the dates the coupons expire (April 1st 1934, April 1st 135, April 1st 1936 and Oct 1 1936).

Please use high resolution scans and if taking the picture by camera, try not to distort the shape of the card by tilting the camera.

Thanks,

Mike
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2020, 09:41 AM
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Default Here's one Mike

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Last edited by philliesphan; 09-30-2020 at 09:42 AM. Reason: double picture
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2020, 11:32 AM
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Hi Michael, definitely it would be great to get a photo representation of all the 1933-36 Zeenut with coupons. I am not a Zeenut coupon collector myself, and only have one Zeenut with coupon throughout the years. My cards were typically in the hands of coupon greedy kids who tore the bottom half of the card off to remove the coupon.

As far as the Woodall throwing card is concerned, I think Horne was correct. Below I have included a scan of a printed off scan of both Woodall throwing cards, April 1st 1935 and April 1st 1936. I measured both, and the earlier one does measure about 1/32" larger, from the top of Woodall's cap to bottom of his shoe. Perhaps you have a (within the) year variation, which as far as I know until now has not shown up in the 1933-36 set. For example, if a couponed card is a smaller picture in one year, another size for that year has not been found It would be nice to see your two Woodall cards in comparison.

Brian
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2020, 12:54 PM
rsst206 rsst206 is offline
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Here are a few not on your list
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2020, 01:10 PM
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here are a few more
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2020, 05:35 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
Michael Fried
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
Hi Michael, definitely it would be great to get a photo representation of all the 1933-36 Zeenut with coupons. I am not a Zeenut coupon collector myself, and only have one Zeenut with coupon throughout the years. My cards were typically in the hands of coupon greedy kids who tore the bottom half of the card off to remove the coupon.

As far as the Woodall throwing card is concerned, I think Horne was correct. Below I have included a scan of a printed off scan of both Woodall throwing cards, April 1st 1935 and April 1st 1936. I measured both, and the earlier one does measure about 1/32" larger, from the top of Woodall's cap to bottom of his shoe. Perhaps you have a (within the) year variation, which as far as I know until now has not shown up in the 1933-36 set. For example, if a couponed card is a smaller picture in one year, another size for that year has not been found It would be nice to see your two Woodall cards in comparison.

Brian
Brian,

I glad you raised the question (actually several questions), because we all need to decide what to call the different varieties besides by date of issue. There are many variations besides the "poses." For "poses," I have been distinguishing the cards by whether the entire picture is more cropped than its comparator, and calling the one with more cropping the "large" size, and the other one that shows more picture the "small" one.

That brings us to another issue to resolve. We do not have the measurement of the central figure for most scans and can only make comparative sizing by making the images of the cards the same height and aligning the coupon
bars.

There's no doubt from your measurements that the Woodall image is larger in the 1935 card. From the scans below, 1935 card shows more image than the slightly more cropped 1936 one. Even though the 1936 card you pictured has a little more of the right side showing, it seems the 1935 still has a slight bit more. How do you suggest we address this? It's going to come up with lots of cards.

The end card (1935) in the first row is the same as the first card in the second row. You'll notice that 1935 card has part of the next card on the sheet printed on its right, indicating the end of the card image. While we don't yet have a piece of the next card for the 1936 one, it seems that extrapolation of the images we have indicates the 1936 card has less of the far right part of the original image than the 1935.





As to in year variations, I often think I've found one, especially when looking at small scans of large lots being offered at auction. After a long and careful examination, it never turns out to be one. It's usually just a fuzzy image of an expiration date so that on first glance a "5" looks like a "6" or visa verca.

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 09-30-2020 at 05:37 PM.
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2020, 06:25 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philliesphan View Post
.
Coscarart seems to be on the want list of most everyone from Seattle. Thanks for the post.

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 09-30-2020 at 07:01 PM.
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  #21  
Old 09-30-2020, 07:00 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsst206 View Post
here are a few more
Your scans are just great, a lot better than most auction houses. And the kicker is four 1933 black & whites with coupons that expire April 1st 1934.

They didn't print just a couple of cards on a sheet, so there must be many more 1933 Black & White's with April 1st 1934 expiry dates. But where are they?

I think we have to consider the 1933 Zeenut "Sepia" cards as part of the set. Those are obviously distinguishable without a coupon. The 1933 Black & Whites are out there, but back then the coupons probably went for a lot candy.

1933 was the 20th anniversary of Zeenuts using coupons on cards (first issue with coupons was the 1913 series). I wonder what type of promotions Zeenuts had at the time. A lot of coupons sure were torn off.

I am going to put out a more simplified list showing only those cards with coupons we already have scans of (and will update it regularly). That way, anyone with a couponed card not on the list could post a scan.

I think I should include the 1933 sepia cards, as well as the 1937-38 cards with coupons that expire Oct 30th 1937. What do you think?

Mike
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2020, 08:02 PM
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Default 1933 Sepia Variations

I was going over 1933 Zeenut Sepia cards that have coupons that expire April 1st 1934 to figure out how to combine all of the Zeenuts cards that expire on April 1st 1934 together. I found the coupon variations shown below. While the text of both coupons is printed in black, the one on the right also has a sepia color overprint that the one on the left doesn't have. Is this just a aberration or do other 1933 Zeenut sepia cards come with different colored coupons?



Mike

ADDED ABOUT AN HOUR AFTER INITIAL POST:

So far, I've found the following variations in the 1933 Sepia coupons:
(1) Sepia Block on Coupon with Black Text
(2) Sepia Block on Coupon with Sepia Text
(3) Black & White (B&W) Coupon with Black Text
(4) B&W Coupon with B&W Text (the offer expires line may be in Sepia)

I have different scans of Brubacker, Ray (Oakland, Mgr) cards with Sepia Coupons, one with Black Text and another with Sepia Text.

I did not distinguish if the Block on the Coupon was printed in both Sepia and B&W,, and put those into the Sepia Coupon group.

Last edited by abctoo; 09-30-2020 at 08:42 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2020, 08:56 PM
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Just to see if we are describing the same thing, I have posted two 'size' variations of Garibaldi (I wish they were all this easy to differentiate). This is just one scan, so as to not get any size distortion. I would call the card on the left 'small' and the card on the right 'large' due to the relative size of the player's image on each card. Is this how you classify them as well?

Brian
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2020, 10:28 PM
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Mike-

All my coupon'ed Sepia's seem to be Sepia at the bottom.

I'm not sure I'd characterize those two Sulik's as being different, as the one on the left is much richer in terms of contrast and darkness throughout the card, not just in the coupon
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  #25  
Old 10-01-2020, 07:04 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
Just to see if we are describing the same thing, I have posted two 'size' variations of Garibaldi (I wish they were all this easy to differentiate). This is just one scan, so as to not get any size distortion. I would call the card on the left 'small' and the card on the right 'large' due to the relative size of the player's image on each card. Is this how you classify them as well?

Brian

That's the $64 question! The one on the right you posted above is obviously a larger pose than the one on the left. Horne's 1970's list has only the 1935 Garibaldi card ("offer expires April 1st 1936") and calls it the "large" pose, but gives no indication of the date of a "small" pose. Currently, I have only two different Garibaldi's scanned, the 1935 one ("offer expires April 1st 1936") and the 1937 ("offer expires Oct. 30th, 1937").



The one you pictured on the right appears similar to the 1935 Garibaldi ("offer expires April 1st 1936"). While at first glance, the card on the left of your previous post looks like the 1937 one of my scan, you'll notice the shape of the boxes containing the player's name are different on these two cards. The box on the 1937 issue of my scan is square, while the corners on the box of the first card pictured in your scan are each cut off making the box an octagon (a box style used on many 1930s cards through those with offers that expired Oct 1st 1936). So we now have two similar "small" poses issued in different years.

Anybody have any suggestions on a one or two word phrase we can use to differentiate these three cards (and perhaps a fourth one that might show up)?

Mike

ADDED AFTER INITIAL POST:

I forgot to mention Art Garibaldi's relevant playing history. He played for Sacramento from 1931 through part of 1936, with the rest of 1936 (6-20 to 9-27) with the St. Louis Cardinals, then returned to Sacramento for 1937. In 1938, he played for the Columbus Red Birds. It would be easy to assume the missing coupon on the unidentified card you posted was a 1935 one ("expires Oct 1st 1936"), but with Garibaldi's playing record with Sacramento I think we should wait until an actual coupon shows up. I too wish the 1930's Zeenuts cards "were all this easy to differentiate."

Last edited by abctoo; 10-01-2020 at 10:43 AM.
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  #26  
Old 10-01-2020, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philliesphan View Post
Mike-

All my coupon'ed Sepia's seem to be Sepia at the bottom.
Here are two examples of the 1933 sepia cards with Black & White coupons.



I guess I have to include the 1933 Sepias ("offer expires April 1st 1934") in the list so that we can get scans to cover all of the 1933 Zeenuts cards. Will post list of what scans I already have shortly.

Thanks,

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 10-01-2020 at 11:56 AM.
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  #27  
Old 10-01-2020, 11:26 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Default Zeenuts Scan List. Post Any 1933, 1933-36 & 1937-38 Cards Not Listed

For simplicity, here's a list of the 1933 through 1937 Zeenuts cards with coupons we already have scans of. Please post a scan or picture of any card not on this list. Your contributions will be acknowledged in the list. I will continue to regularly update it. If taking the picture with a camera, take it straight on so image is not distorted by camera tilting. You may have to cover your flash up to avoid glare (whited out areas). Thanks from all of us who are working on this project, Mike.


1933 Zeenuts Sepia (coupon expires April 1st 1934) Note: while the pictures are in sepia, there are three basic styles of coupon printing that does not affect a player's picture: (1) Sepia ink only used, (2) Black ink only used; and (3) Mixed Sepia and Black ink used. On the Mixed ones, usually the coupon block is printed with Sepia ink on top of Black ink, and the offer expires line can be in either Sepia or Black (but sometimes appears to be one printed over the other). Since a coupon inking variety does not affect the player picture and there seems to be no player picture varieties, for simplicity we list the Sepia cards with coupons we have a scan of and do not distinguish the variations that occur only in the coupons.

Almada, Lou (Mission)
Bordagary (Sacramento)
Bottarini (Seattle)
Brubaker, Ray (Oakland, Mgr)
Burns (Seattle, Mgr)
Cole (Mission) [from PSST206, net54ball]
Dahlgren (Mission) [from PSST206, net54ball]
Donovan (Seals) [from PSST206, net54ball]
Freitas, Dick (Seattle)
Galan (Seals) [examples from PSST206, net54baseball]
Hofmann (Mission, Mgr)
Kelman (Mission)
Lelivelt, Jack (Los Angeles, Mgr) [example from PSST206, net54ball]
Ludolph (Oakland)
McDonald (Portland)
McNeeley (Sacramento, Mgr) [from PSST206, net54ball]
Osborne (Mission) [example from PSST206, net54ball]
Reeves (Portland) [from philliesphan, net54baseball]
Scott, Pete (Oakland) [from PSST206, net54ball]
Steinbacker (Sacramento)
Sulik, Ernie (Seals)
Vitt, Oscar (Hollywood, Mgr)
Zinn (Seals)

1933-36 Zeenuts (coupons expire April 1st 1934, April 1st 1935, April 1st 1936, and Oct 1st 1936)

Coupon expires April 1st 1934

Babich (Mission) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Blackerby (Portland)
Brundin (Portland) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Coscarart (Mission)
Davis (Seals) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Kenna (Seals) [from rsst206, net54baseball]

Coupon expires April 1st 1935

Backer (Seals)
Ballou, William (Seals)
Biongovanni (Seattle)
Borja (Boroja), Tony (Sacramento)
Carlyle, Cleo (Hollywood) dated 1935 or 1936
Caveney, Jim (Seals) [correct spelling of last name]
Coscarart (Seattle) [from philliesphan, net54ball]
DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Joe (Seals) batting
Deviveirous (Oakland) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Douglas, Ken (Seals)
Eckhardt, Ox (Mission) April 1st 1935, shoe partially cut off by white border at bottom (need better scan)
Fitzpatrick (Mission)
Funk (Seals) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Gibson, Sam (Seals) white sleeves, lifted shoe is solid black below white sock
Henderson, Bill (Seals)
Herrmann, Leroy (Seals)
Holland (Seattle) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Horne, Berlyn (Sacramento)
House, Andy (Sacramento)
Hunt, Art (Seals)
Joiner (Oakland) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Kampouris (Sacramento)
Kintana, Leo (Oakland)
Lahman (Sacramento) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Mailho, Ernie (Oakland)
Mails, Walter (Seals)
McMullen (Seals)
Mulligan, Eddie (Oakland) hands not showing
Ostenberg, Leo (Sacramento)
Page (Hollywood)
Palmisano (Portland)
Pillette, Ted (Mission)
Pool (Oakland)
Radonitz (Seattle)
Salvo (Sacramento) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Sever, Carl (Seals)
Stitzel, Hal (Los Angeles)
Stutz, Ed (Seals)
Sulik, Ernie (Seals)
Vitt, Oscar (Hollywood, Mgr)
Woodall, Larry (Seals)

Coupon expires April 1st 1936

Almada, Lou (Mission)
Anton, Leroy (Oakland)
Ballou, William (Seals)
Beck, Clyde (Mission)
Becker, Joe (Seals)
Borga (Boroja), Tony (Sacramento)
Carlyle (Hollywood)
Cole, Albert (Seals) with glove
Connors, Merv (Oakland)
DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Joe (Seals) throwing
Densmore, Jim (Seals)
Douglas, Ken (Oakland)
Duggan, Mickey (Mission)
Eckhardt, Ox (Mission), full shoe clear of border at bottom
Ellsworth, Floyd (Sacramento)
Garibaldi, Art (Seals)
Gibson, Sam (Seals) white sleeves, lifted shoe shows white “lacings”
Hafey, Tom (Mission)
Haid, Hal (Oakland)
Hartwig (Sacramento)
Kelly, Ernie (Oakland)
Kintana, Leo (Oakland)
Ludolph, Willie (Oakland)
Mailho, Ernie (Oakland)
Mails, Walter (Seals)
Marty, Joe (Seals) white sleeves
Massuci, Tony (Seals)
McEvoy, Lou (Oakland)
McMullen (Oakland)
Monzo, Vince (Seals)
Mort, Roy (Mission)
Mulligan, Eddie (Oakland) hands showing
Newkirk, Floyd (Seals)
O'Doul, Lefty (seals) white sleeves
Powers, Les (Seals)
Raimondi, Billy (Oakland) [from Philliesphan, net54baseball]
Rego, Jim (Oakland)
Salvo, Manny (Sacramento)
Sheehan, Ken (Seals)
Statz, Arnold 'Jigger' (Los Angeles)
Steinbacker, Hank (Sacramento)
Stitzel, Hal (Seals)
Street, Charles (Mission)
Stutz, Ed (Seals)
Thurston, Hollie (Mission)
Vitt, Oscar (Oakland, Mgr)
Walsh, Ed (Oakland)
Wirts, Elwood (Sacramento)
Woodall, Larry (Seals) [examples from brianp-beme, net54baseball]
Wright, Al (Mission)

Coupon expires Oct 1st 1936

Almada, Lou (Mission)
Ballou, William (Seals)
Barath, Steve (Seals)
Beck, Clyde (Missions)
Borja (Boroja), Tony (Seals)
Cole, Albert (Seals) no glove
Francovich (Missions)
Gibson, Sam (Seals) black sleeves
Gira, Frank (Seals)
Graves, Jim (Seals)
Holder, Brooks (Seals)
Johnson, Lloyd (Missions)
Joost (Missions)
Jorgensen, Jolly (Seals)
Mails, Walter (Seals)
Marty, Joe (Seals) black sleeves
Massuci, Tony (Seals)
Monzo, Vince (Seals)
Mort, Roy (Missons)
Nitcholas (Missions)
Norbert (Seals)
O'Doul, Lefty (Seals) black sleeves
Outen, Chink (Missions) batting
Rhyne, Hal (Seals)
Rosenberg, Harry (Missions)
Salkeld (Seals)
Sheehan, Ken (Seals)
Starritt (Seals)
Stewart (Missions)
Stitzel, Hal (seals)
Stoneham (Missions)
Thurston, Hollis (Missions)
West (Missions)
Woodall, Larry (Seals) batting [examples from brianp-beme, net54baseball]
Wright, Al (Missions)


1937-38 Zeenuts (coupon expires Oct. 30th 1937)

Annunzio (Missions)
Ballou, William (Seals)
Beck, W. (Missions)
Boss, harley (Seals)
Daglia (Seals)
DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Dom (Seals)
Frankovich (Missions)
Freitas (Sacramento)
Garibaldi (Sacramento)
Gibson, Sam (Seals)
Gill, John (Seals)
Graves (Seals)
Guay (Seals)
Hawkins (Seals)
Herrmann (Missions)
Holder (Seals)
Koenig (Missions)
Lamanski (Missions)
Lillard, Gene (Seals)
Marble, Harry (Missions)
Mills, Pinckney (Seals)
Mort, Bobby. (Missions)
Nitcholas (Missions)
Osborne (Missions)
Outen (Missions)
Outen, C. (Missions)
Powell (Seals)
Rosenberg, Harry (Missions)
Sheehan, Ken (Seals)
Shores (Seals)
Slade (Missions)
Sprinz (Missions)
Statz (Los Angeles)
Stutz (Seals)
Thomson (Seals)
Tost (Missions)
Vitter (Seals)
West (Missions)
Woodall, Larry (Seals)
Wright (Seals)

1938 Zeenuts (No Coupon)

I know it's far fetched, but does anyone have a 1938 Zeenuts card they took from a package? Coupons were not attached to the cards but included as a separate item in the package. A scan would help us identify the actual borders Zeenuts used for these cards and would help determine which cards are the 1938 issue. Of course, if you think you have an actual 1938 issue, provide a scan and tell us why you think it is a 1938. Thanks, Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 10-05-2020 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Updating Checklist
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  #28  
Old 10-01-2020, 12:11 PM
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Love your passion on the project, Mike.

Hard to believe there would be anyone here that took a 1938 Zeenuts from a package. But perhaps?

To add to your scan list, here is a 1933 Sepia Reeves:
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  #29  
Old 10-01-2020, 01:27 PM
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I have a Levelet zee with coupon but can't post a scan right now.
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  #30  
Old 10-01-2020, 02:15 PM
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here are some more 1933 Sepia
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  #31  
Old 10-01-2020, 10:01 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Default Updated list of zeenut cards with coupons we have scans of

I've just updated the list in Post #27 (that's in Post #27, not #22) above to show all of the scans we now have. Please see the new comments about the 1933 Sepia variations that occur only in the coupons.

Please post any image of a Zeenut card with a coupon that is not on the list. While we are approaching 200 different, there are still plenty to go.

Thanks from all of us working on this project.

If there is a problem with just updating the prior post at Post #27, let me know and I try to work something else out. I just thought that with new scans coming in almost every day that to repost the list too frequently might waste space in this thread.

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 10-02-2020 at 06:16 AM.
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  #32  
Old 10-02-2020, 09:29 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abctoo View Post
I've just updated the list in Post #27 (that's in Post #27, not #22) above to show all of the scans we now have. Please see the new comments about the 1933 Sepia variations that occur only in the coupons.
I've been thinking about the coupon varieties of the 1933 Sepia Zeenuts. While perhaps there are at least two or three different coupons to go with each player, so far all of the pictures of a player seem to be the same, i.e. not with different poses or other variations. And I believe that is consistent with the historical record of these Sepia cards.

Much detailed work goes into distinguishing the different 1933 Sepia coupons of the same player from the scans. Often the scans are not of high enough resolution to make a clear distinction as to whether a line in a coupon is printed only in Sepia or only in Black ink or whether it is a combination of one printed on top of the other.

Few of us have any problems identifying a 1933 Sepia card from just looking at its picture. Being Sepia places its year of issue as 1933. Most people don't have even a single Sepia card with a coupon, but they sure can have 1933 Sepia cards without coupons. The ink color variations occur only in the coupons and not on the player's picture and have no impact on identifying the card. It's either a Sepia or it's not.

We still need pictures of each of the 1933 Sepia cards with a coupon for two reasons. The many out there with Sepia cards without coupons can then clearly identify the player and the coupon will clearly establish the card as a 1933 issue (the coupon's last line states: "This offer expires on April 1st 1934").

I think that overburdening the List and subsequent Picture Presentation of Zeenuts with Coupons with too much detail about each color ink variation in the 1933 Sepia Zeenuts would have deleterious effect on our current project. Here, our purpose includes establishing the actual year of issue of each of the different varieties of pictures found on Zeenuts cards issued from 1933 through 1938. Thereby, the very many Zeenut cards out there without coupons can be identified as to which year they were actually issued by Zeenut.

So, I think I should revise the List of Post #27 above to show only that we have a scan of a 1933 Sepia with a coupon with an offer that "expires April 1st 1933" and need scans of the missing players. Of course, any Sepia coupon with any month, day or year other than "April 1st 1933" would be highly prized and we sure would appreciate a scan.

Keep you scans of all cards missing from the list coming. We can complete this project.

Thanks,

Mike
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  #33  
Old 10-02-2020, 09:58 AM
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Default Billy

Arguably the best catcher to ever play in PCL:
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  #34  
Old 10-02-2020, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philliesphan View Post
Arguably the best catcher to ever play in PCL:
Until I was 10 (in 1955), I lived in the Oakland district called Montclair. The Raimondi's has the local paint store. His brother's name was Phil. In the 1980's, I set up at a monthly flea market at Chabot College in Hayward (a couple of cities away from Oakland). A baseball card collector came by wanting to trade for a "hot" rookie card I had.

What did he have to offer? A bunch of stuff, but the thing that caught my eye (and he could have had everything I had brought with me for it) was an inscribed silver lighter given Phil Raimondi at the end of the 1948 season by the Oakland Oaks in appreciation for him working in the family store for so many years so his brother could play baseball.

Oakland won the Pacific Coast League championship that year under manager, Casey Stengel. Take a look at the players on the 1948 team at https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=db772f44

I asked the Raimondi's about the lighter. They said they had thrown it away because Phil was a heavy smoker and had died of lung cancer.

When I dig it out, I'll post a scan. Philliesphan, you are lucky. I've been looking for a Billy Raimondi Zeenut card with a coupon but haven't found one yet.

Mike
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  #35  
Old 10-02-2020, 04:44 PM
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Love that story, Mike, thank you!
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  #36  
Old 10-03-2020, 12:23 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Default Post more scans of 1933-37 Zeenuts with Coupons,

Hey Mark Macrae ( oaks1912 ) or Anybody!

Help our project and post the fronts of Zeenuts cards with coupons not on our list above at Post #27. We're looking only for those with coupons that have offer expiry dates of April 1st 1934, April 1st 1935, April 1st 1936, Oct 1st 1936 or Oct 30th 1937.

You'll get credit for your posting as we will put your member's name next to the cards as we add them to our list. Help us all out.

Thanks,

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 10-03-2020 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abctoo View Post
Hey Mark Macrae ( oaks1912 ) or Anybody!

Help our project and post the fronts of Zeenuts cards with coupons not on our list above at Post #27. We're looking only for those with coupons that have offer expiry dates of April 1st 1934, April 1st 1935, April 1st 1936, Oct 1st 1936 or Oct 30th 1937.

You'll get credit for your posting as we will put your member's name next to the cards as we add them to our list. Help us all out.

Thanks,

Mike
I used to have one of each year with coupon but that was long ago. Hopefully some (more) friendly members will help out. Good luck....
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  #38  
Old 10-05-2020, 08:04 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
Michael Fried
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I used to have one of each year with coupon but that was long ago. Hopefully some (more) friendly members will help out. Good luck....
Actually Leon, you have helped. Before this project started out, I acquired a few of your scans from old posts here on net54baseball. When I figure out which ones, I'll post your name next to the listings. Thanks again. Mike
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  #39  
Old 10-10-2020, 08:17 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
Michael Fried
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Default Updated list of Zeenut cards with coupons: Find Us More!

UPDATED 1933 -1937 ZEENUT COUPON LIST (10-16-2020). All 1933 through 1937 Zeenut cards with coupons of which we now have scans. Need scans of cards not on list.

See new Zeenut information at end under 1938 Zeenut (No Coupon) (issued 1938).

Our project is to identify the actual year of issue of the many Zeenut cards of this time period. We are gathering scans of these cards with coupons attached and arranging them by the “offer expires” dates shown on the coupons. As long as the coupon is intact, no matter how beat up the Zeenut card is, we need a scan. It will help distinguish the many similar player poses and other card variations from one another among the many different that were issued during the 1933 through 1938 period. Thereby, we will have a picture catalog dating the numerous varieties of 1930's Zeenut player cards out there to their actual years of issue and not merely to an almost decade long, generic time period.

HELP OUR PROJECT! POST A SCAN OF ANY ZEENUT CARD WITH COUPON INTACT NOT LISTED BELOW. Similar looking cards of the same player can have different “offer expires” dates (from April 1st 1934 through Oct. 30th 1937) on the coupons. It's those variations we need. We already have scans of the various player cards with coupons with "offer expires" dates as listed below. Each new addition contributes to identifying the cards of this very popular Zeenut series. You've probably seen Zeenut cards come pretty beat up. We don't care as long as a missing card adds to the list. All of us thank you very much for whatever you can do. Your comments are also very welcomed.

1933 Zeenut Sepia (coupon expires April 1st 1934) (issued 1933). Note: while the player pictures are in sepia, there are three basic styles of coupon printing that does not affect a player's picture:. These are coupons printed in: (1) Sepia ink only; (2) Black ink only; and, (3) Mixed Sepia and Black ink. For the Mixed inks, the coupon block is often printed with Sepia ink on top of Black ink, the offer expires line can be either Sepia or Black (but may be one printed over the other. These coupon inking varieties appear only on the coupon. There appears to be no player picture varieties for this year, but there are variations as to whether a particular player's card was issued in Sepia or Black & White.

Almada, Lou (Mission) Sepia
Bordagary, Frenchy (Sacramento) Sepia
Bottarini, John (Seattle) Sepia
Brubaker, Ray (Oakland, Mgr) Sepia
Burns, George (Seattle, Mgr) Sepia
Cole, Bert (Mission) Sepia [from PSST206, net54ball]
Dahlgren, Babe (Mission) Sepia [from PSST206, net54ball]
Donovan, Gerry (Seals) Sepia [from PSST206, net54ball]
Freitas, Dick (Seattle) Sepia
Galan, Augie (Seals) Sepia [examples from PSST206, net54baseball]
Hofmann, Fred (Mission, Mgr) Sepia
Kelman, Paul (Mission) Sepia (B&W without coupon also identified)
Lelivelt, Jack (Los Angeles, Mgr) Sepia [example from PSST206, net54ball]
Ludolph, Willie (Oakland) Sepia
McDonald, Hank (Portland) Sepia
McNeeley, Earl (Sacramento, Mgr) Sepia [from PSST206, net54ball]
Osborne, Wayne (Mission) Sepia [example from PSST206, net54ball]
Reeves, Bobby (Portland) Sepia [from philliesphan, net54baseball]
Scott, Pete (Oakland) Sepia [from PSST206, net54ball]
Steinbacker, Hank (Sacramento) Sepia
Sulik, Ernie (Seals) Sepia
Vitt, Oscar (Hollywood, Mgr) Sepia
Zinn, Jim (Seals) Sepia

So-Called 1933-36 Zeenut (coupons expire April 1st 1934, April 1st 1935, April 1st 1936, and Oct 1st 1936)

Printed in Black & White (not Sepia as above) Coupon expires April 1st 1934 (issued 1933)

Babich, Johnny (Mission) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Blackerby (Portland)
Brundin, Harold “Chief” (Portland) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Coscarart, Joe (Mission)
Davis, Curt (Seals) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Kenna, Eddie (Seals) [from rsst206, net54baseball]

Coupon expires April 1st 1935 (issued 1934)

Backer, Lonny (Seals)
Ballou, Win (Seals)
Biongovanni (Seattle)
Borja (Boroja), Tony (Sacramento)
Caveney (Cavaney), Jim (Seals) [name misspelled CAVENEY]
Coscarart, Joe (Seattle) [from philliesphan, net54ball]
DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Joe (Seals) batting
DeViveiros, Bernie (Oakland) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Douglas, Ken (Seals)
Eckhardt, Ox (Mission) April 1st 1935, shoe partially cut off by white border at bottom (need better scan)
Fitzpatrick, Jack (Mission)
Funk, Elias (Seals) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Gibson, Sam (Seals) white sleeves, lifted shoe is solid black below white sock
Henderson, Bill (Seals)
Herrmann, Leroy (Seals)
Holland , Dutch (Seattle) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Horne, Berlyn (Sacramento)
House, Andy (Sacramento)
Hunt, Art (Seals)
Joiner, Roy (Oakland) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Kampouris (Sacramento)
Kintana, Leo (Oakland)
Lahman, Calvin (Sacramento) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Mailho, Ernie (Oakland)
Mails, Walter (Seals)
McMullen, Hugh (Seals) “SEALS” on Jersey, name box bottom right
Mulligan, Eddie (Oakland) hands not showing, name box left side of card
Ostenberg, Leo (Sacramento)
Page, Vance (Hollywood)
Palmisano, Joe (Portland)
Pillette, T. (Ted) (Mission)
Pool, Harlin (Oakland)
Radonitz, Bill (Seattle)
Rhyne, Hal (Seals) [from philliesphan, net54baseball]
Salvo, Manny (Sacramento) [from rsst206, net54baseball]
Sever, Carl (Seals)
Stitzel, Hal (Los Angeles)
Stutz, Ed (Seals)
Sulik, Ernie (Seals)
Vitt, Oscar (Hollywood, Mgr)
Woodall, Larry (Seals)

Coupon expires April 1st 1936 (issued 1935)

Almada, Lou (Mission)
Anton, Leroy (Oakland)
Ballou, Win (Seals)
Beck (Clyde) (Mission)
Becker, Joe (Seals)
Borga (Boroja), Tony (Sacramento)
Carlyle, Cleo (Hollywood)
Cole, Albert (Seals) with glove
Connors, Merv (Oakland)
DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Joe (Seals) throwing
Densmore, Jim (Seals)
Douglas, Ken (Oakland)
Duggan, Mickey (Mission)
Eckhardt, Ox (Mission), full shoe clear of border at bottom
Ellsworth, Floyd (Sacramento)
Garibaldi, Art (Seals)
Gibson, Sam (Seals) white sleeves, lifted shoe shows white “lacings”
Hafey, Tom (Mission)
Haid, Hal (Oakland)
Hartwig, Bill (Sacramento)
Kelly, E. (Ernie) (Oakland)
Kintana, Leo (Oakland)
Ludolph, Willie (Oakland)
Mailho, Ernie (Oakland)
Mails, Walter (Seals)
Marty, Joe (Seals) white sleeves
Massuci, Tony (Seals)
McEvoy, Lou (Oakland)
McMullen, Hugh (Oakland) “OAKS” on Jersey, name box bottom left
Monzo, Vince (Seals)
Mort, Roy (Mission)
Mulligan, Eddie (Oakland) hands showing, name box bottom right side of card
Newkirk, Floyd (Seals)
O'Doul, Lefty (Seals, Mgr) white sleeves
Powers, Les (Seals)
Raimondi, Billy (Oakland) [from Philliesphan, net54baseball]
Rego, Jim (Oakland)
Salvo, Manny (Sacramento)
Sheehan, Ken (Seals)
Statz, Arnold 'Jigger' (Los Angeles)
Steinbacker, Hank (Sacramento)
Stitzel, Hal (Seals)
Street, Charles (Mission)
Stutz, Ed (Seals)
Thurston, Hollis (Mission)
Vitt, Oscar (Oakland, Mgr)
Walsh, Ed (Oakland)
Wirts, Elwood (Sacramento)
Woodall, Larry (Seals) [examples from brianp-beme, net54baseball]
Wright, Al (Mission)

Coupon expires Oct 1st 1936 (issued 1936)

Almada, Lou (Mission) (spelled “MISSION”, not “MISSIONS”)
Ballou, Win (Seals)
Barath, Steve (Seals)
Beck, C. (Clyde) (Missions)
Borja (Boroja), Tony (Seals)
Cole, Albert (Seals) no glove
Francovich, Mike (Missions)
Gibson, Sam (Seals) both feet on ground, black sleeves under jersey
Gira, Frank (Seals)
Graves, Jim (Seals)
Holder, B. (Brooks) (Seals)
Johnson, Lloyd (Missions)
Joost, Eddie (Missions)
Jorgensen (Seals) (not listed as a Seal 1932-40, not in baseballreference.com, tcdb says “Karl Jorgensen” without any information)
Mails, Walter (Seals)
Marty, Joe (Seals) black sleeves
Massuci, Tony (Seals)
Monzo, Vince (Seals)
Mort, Roy (Missions)
Nitcholas, Otho (Missions)
Norbert, Ted (Seals)
O'Doul, Lefty (Seals) black sleeves
Outen, William "Chink" (Missions) batting
Rhyne, Hal (Seals)
Rosenberg, Harry (Missions)
Salkeld, Bill (Seals)
Sheehan, Ken (Seals)
Starritt (Seals) unknown player (baseballreference.com lists a George Starritt without any information)
Stewart, Walt (Missions)
Stitzel, Hal (Seals)
Stoneham, John (Missions)
Thurston, Hollis (Missions)
Woodall, Larry (Seals) batting [examples from brianp-beme, net54baseball]
Wright, Al (Missions)


1937-38 Zeenut (coupon expires Oct. 30th 1937) (issued 1937)

Annunzio, Joe (Missions)
Ballou, Win (Seals)
Beck, W. (Walter) (Missions)
Boss, Harley (Seals)
Daglia, Pete (Seals)
DeMaggio (DiMaggio), Dom (Seals)
Frankovich, Mike (Missions)
Freitas, Tony (Sacramento)
Garibaldi, Art (Sacramento)
Gibson, Sam (Seals)
Gill, Johnny (Seals)
Graves, Jim (Seals)
Guay, Larry (Seals)
Hawkins, Frankie (Seals)
Herrmann, Leroy (Missions)
Holder, Brooks (Seals)
Koenig, Mark (Missions)
Lamanski (Laamanske), Frank (Missions)
Lillard, Gene (Seals)
Marble, Harry (Missions)
Mills, Pinckney (Seals)
Mort, B. (Roy) (Missions)
Nitcholas, Otho (Missions)
Osborne, Wayne (Missions)
Outen, William "Chink" (Missions) throwing
Outen, C. (William "Chink") (Missions) batting
Powell, Larry (Seals)
Rosenberg, Harry (Missions)
Sheehan, Ken (Seals)
Shores, Bill (Seals)
Slade, Gordon (Missions)
Sprinz, Joe (Missions)
Statz, Jigger (Los Angeles)
Stutz, Ed (Seals)
Thomson, Francis (Seals)
Tost, Louis (Missions)
Vitter (Seals)
West, Max (Missions)
Woodall, Larry (Seals)
Wright, Al (Seals)

1938 Zeenut (No Coupon) (issued 1938)

For 1937-38 Zeenuts, some catalogues list the same player name more than once, often with two different teams based on the information shown in the box printed on the card, and without dating the actual year of issue. For example, as "C. OUTEN" (Missions), "C. OUTEN" (Hollywood) and "OUTEN" (Missions). The only Outen, William "Chink" Outen, played with the Missions in 1937 and with Hollywood in 1938. The different team name in the box on front establishes the year of issue. In 1938, Zeenut cards were issued without a coupon attached (a separate coupon was provided in the package). We needs scans of most of the 1938 cards without coupons.

The following is a list of 1937-38 players who played on different teams for each of those years. Any additions to the list are welcomed.

GABRIELSON, Len - 1937 (Oakland part of year, need scan) & 1938 (Seattle part of year)
LEISHMAN, Eddie - 1937 (Oakland, need scan) & 1938 (Seattle)
MARBLE, Harry "Tim" - 1937 (Missions) & 1939 (Hollywood, need scan). Marble played for Bellingham in 1938, so if a Hollywood card exists as is catalogued, then its a 1939 Zeenut.
B. MORT, (Roy Mort) - 1937 (Missions) & 1938 (Hollywood, need scan).
C. OUTEN - 1937 (Missions) & 1938 (Hollywood, need scan) [William "Chick" Outen, also has 1937 Missions card with just "OUTEN" and not "C. OUTEN" on it]
RAIMONDI: Billy (William) Raimondi with Oakland 1932-1949; Ernie Raimondi with San Francisco Seals 1936, then Tacoma (not Pacific Coast League) 1937 into 1938, then San Francisco Seals again latter part of 1938 into 1940. Al Raimondi played in the PCL in 1939 only. Especially need scans of cards listed in catalogues as "A. RAIMONDI" and "W. RAIMONDI"
ROSENBERG, Harry - 1937 (Missions) & 1938 (Portland need scan)
SHEEHAN, Kenny - 1937 (Seals) & 1938 (Oakland, need scan)
SLADE, Gordon - 1937 (Missions) & 1938 (Hollywood, need scan)
SPRINZ - 1937 (Missions) & 1938 (Seals, need scan)
TOST, Lou - 1937 (Missions) & 1938 (Hollywood, need scan)
VITTER, Joe - 1937 (Seals) & 1938 (Hollywood, need scan)

The 1938 ones above with need scan, we need scans of the basic cards (even without coupon).
Thanks, Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 10-16-2020 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Updating Checklist
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  #40  
Old 10-14-2020, 07:54 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
Michael Fried
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Location: Oakland
Posts: 111
Default Mark McCrea - Help Us Out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oaks1912 View Post
The Standard Catalog list is a good starting point (You can buy an outdated version for about $10 plus shipping), as is the 1977 Jim Horne booklet, however none of the published checklists are complete, primarily with regards to variations. When you start approaching 3500 different Zeenuts, the advanced collectors will step in and help you
Mark Macrae,

With your experience with Zeenut cards, you should be capable of posting scans of some with coupons from 1933-37 not on our list. Help us out, kindly post at least one.

Thank you,

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 10-14-2020 at 07:57 PM.
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  #41  
Old 10-16-2020, 09:45 AM
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philliesphan philliesphan is offline
Marc S.
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Posts: 571
Default Mike, here's another one

not on your current list.

Hal played in the PCL after his time in MLB. He even made it to the World Series! Unfortunately, it was with the Pirates in 1927, making him a playing spectator against perhaps the strongest team to ever play together.

Hal was an exceptionally popular player for the Seals, and sold out to capacity crowds, for example, at Hal Rhyne Day at Recreation Park.

Delighted to share this one here
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1934HalRhyne.jpg (39.8 KB, 37 views)
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  #42  
Old 10-16-2020, 02:33 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
Michael Fried
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Location: Oakland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philliesphan View Post
not on your current list.

Hal played in the PCL after his time in MLB. He even made it to the World Series! Unfortunately, it was with the Pirates in 1927, making him a playing spectator against perhaps the strongest team to ever play together.

Hal was an exceptionally popular player for the Seals, and sold out to capacity crowds, for example, at Hal Rhyne Day at Recreation Park.

Delighted to share this one here
Hal Rhyne was a Seals favorite. He played with them before and immediately after the Pirates, then to the American League for five years.

Your card is of the first year (1934) of his return to San Francisco, where he continued to play for the Seals through the first part of 1938.

The "Horne" book does not list the "offer expires" date for Rhyne of April 1st 1935 shown in your picture. I have the same picture without coupon (Rhyne facing front while batting) that is slightly more cropped. I have to figure out where to place it. The "Horne" book list one with "Offer expires April 1st, 1936" but says "side view- foot high," and for "Oct. 1st, 1936 as "side view - foot low." No scan of the "April 1st, 1936," but we have a scan of the "Offer expires Oct. 1st 1936" card.

That's not the end of Rhyne as Krause says Rhyne has a 1937-38 card. It is possible he actual has two more cards from that latter timeframe: one with a coupon with an "Offer expires Oct. 30th 1937" and another without a coupon (a 1938). Those two should be with a square name box (not one with cutoff corners of 1934-36).

Hey, we're getting a long way to identifying these cards.

Anyone with a card with a coupon (or a 1938 card) not listed above in Post #39, add it to our project and we may be able to get this thing done so you can ultimately see a picture guide to all of the different variations.

Thanks,

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 10-16-2020 at 02:48 PM.
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  #43  
Old 10-16-2020, 06:41 PM
qed2190 qed2190 is offline
Larry Moe
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Will send a few scans of my coupon cards after I free than from the bank, hey Rhett send me an e mail
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