You spotted a fake, had your seizure,and I learned nothing.

[Stonepony]

(Tongue in cheek....kinda)
So you've spotted another fake card or auto on Ebay. You then immediately post the link on the forum and tell us what a lather you're in and how you're too upset to bring the wife and kids to dinner. In fact you're not sure if you're going to be up to going to work on Monday. This is followed by multiple responses of " Fake", " What a joke" , "Fake", " I Emailed the guy" etc. Etc.
I ask, before all the accolades swamp you, that you please take the time to point out in a educational/ professional manner...exactly what is evident that makes it a fake. It may be obvious to most, but the rest of us would appreciate the insight. " The white of the card should blend seamlessly into the border", " The top of the cap should not touch the border", " The background is never that orange" or whatever . Why is it a fake? When these are pointed out, and they are sometimes, it's invaluable to some of us. I may be the only one, but if it hadn't been for the guy in Tigonemetry class that constantly raised his hands and asked questions, we all would have failed. So after passing on your wisdom about the fake, go to the ER for your facial twitching.....but bring your laptop....it's a 3 hour wait

[the 'stache]

I understand how you feel, Dave. Whenever I see these, I try to chime in, though my knowledge as of now is limited. I am learning quickly though

If you see a discussion similar to the one you described, and have questions, fire away. I've found the members of our forum are happy to provide input if it is politely asked for.

[D.P.Johnson]

I'm new to the board but I think I know what you're trying to say. This type of discussion about "fakes" and whatnot is some of the most interesting stuff to read and learn about from the experts on this board...

[the 'stache]

Welcome to the forum, Dan.

I agree. They make for some of the most interesting discussions, and most educational.

The more I read the responses from the seasoned collectors, the more I am learning that there's often not one or two telltale signs that a card is a fake. It's often much more nuanced than that.

We would all be well advised to follow some of the best advice I've seen since joining the forum: one, buy the card, not the grade, if purchasing a slabbed card. You are paying for a person's opinion. Never assume the card is legitimate because it is slabbed. Examine the card, and the case, and ask questions of your fellow forum members if you're not sure.

Two, buy cards from reputable dealers. Trust in this hobby is important, especially when considering the amount of money that can exchange hands.

And three, education is power. If you are collecting, learn about your subject. Become familiar with how these cards feel, and look. If you're collecting T206 cards, or 1952 Topps cards, get a beater you know is the real thing, and use that as a control. When you acquire a card for your collection, compare it to your control card. Look at it under a microscope. If you're collecting something like the 1971 Topps set (a little beyond the scope of this main board, I know), use a black light, and make sure that the edges haven't been darkened with a black marker. And when you're not sure, ask questions.

[Texxxx]

I agree with Bill. Just jump in and ask. Not many here that want be glad to help. Some times though you will just not totally understand until you have put one in your hands and see a real one in person. Then a light goes off and it's obvious. I would suggest making some shows and just looking at all the cards you can in person.

[Runscott]

It may seem to the OP like not enough info has been posted, but most of us do not try to educate everyone from square one on each and every post. Just ask for specifics and you won't be ignored.

[drcy]

Sometimes when I explain things I worry I've insulted peoples' intelligence.

It's okay to ask. Only a boor would brush you off. Not to suggest there aren't boors on this board, but there are more who are happy to help.

No one was born with baseball card fake knowledge. Even the most seasoned expert started at the level of dumb.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Runscott

It may seem to the OP like not enough info has been posted, but most of us do not try to educate everyone from square one on each and every post. Just ask for specifics and you won't be ignored.

+1

[Stonepony]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott
It may seem to the OP like not enough info has been posted, but most of us do not try to educate everyone from square one on each and every post. Just ask for specifics and you won't be ignored.

No need for square one education on every post and its clear everyone here is helpful. My point was if you out a bad card or auto , tell us why... Or not I guess.
Just my 2 cents. Thanks

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Texxxx

I agree with Bill. Just jump in and ask. Not many here that want be glad to help. Some times though you will just not totally understand until you have put one in your hands and see a real one in person. Then a light goes off and it's obvious. I would suggest making some shows and just looking at all the cards you can in person.

Bruce is right. Speaking metaphorically, you can learn all there is to know about swimming from reading books, and watching videos. But until you've jumped into a pool, and the water is over your head, you don't have the first hand experience that is so vitally necessary.

[Tao_Moko]

I would say 99% of the time that the outing of the "fake" card is obvious enough that I don't bother reading the post.

[bcornell]

If smart alecs were banned, this forum would need a banner ad for tumbleweeds.

I checked out the "Detecting Card Fakes" [sic] page for the first time in a while. One entry that could be added is from a post that Frank Ward provided back in the early 21st century about CJ's (the last paragraph about ink is the most useful). Which, by the way, I found through search...

**********************************

'1914's will say "144 Pictures" in the paragraph on back bottom, the 1915's will say "176 Pictures". The ACC# (American Card Catalog Number) for the 1914's is "E145-1", and 1915's is "E145-2".

There are many many reprints (all worthless) made for the 1915 set, and a few for the 1914's. The easiest way to tell a reprint from an original is to look at the paper type and quality. Real cards are made from a thin lower quality construction paper, very porous in texture, with a rough surface if viewed closely on both front and back. All fakes Ive seen will be made from a thin higher quality smooth surfaced modern card stock. Also the fakes will have a smooth slightly glossy or waxy surface to the front, the real cards have no gloss or waxy look to them and will not cast a glare if turned at angle to a light.

Another 100% positive way to tell a fake on the 1915's only ("176 Picture" series), is for some unknown reason, the backs on all 1915's have been printed upside down. In other words, the bottom edge of the back, is the same edge as the top of the front. I have yet to see a 1915 reprint with this upside down back.

Another characteristic of all real Cracker Jack cards, is there is no white ink on the cards. The white or light parts of the uniform is the natural paper color. Most fakes have a white ink for the white parts of uniform, that doesnt match the white border of the card. Real cards will have the uniform blend perfectly into the white border where they meet.'

[Stonepony]

Thanks for that, Bill. Great information

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Thanks for that, Bill. Great information

I was largely a newbie when I arrived here. PSA had summarily declared 2 T204's I had as trimmed, when they definitely were not. That was my last PSA submission. I've bought, sold & traded a ton of cards since then and I humbly think I can pick out a fake from a long way away, especially when I hold it in my hands, but sometimes, that isn't possible.

The eBay crud is annoying, so I get why people post about it, although it's never going to end. I also get why a poster would ask "what, exactly, is wrong with it?" and I think that's a much more important post. No harm in sharing knowledge.

Bill

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

(Tongue in cheek....kinda)
So you've spotted another fake card or auto on Ebay. You then immediately post the link on the forum and tell us what a lather you're in and how you're too upset to bring the wife and kids to dinner. In fact you're not sure if you're going to be up to going to work on Monday. This is followed by multiple responses of " Fake", " What a joke" , "Fake", " I Emailed the guy" etc. Etc.
I ask, before all the accolades swamp you, that you please take the time to point out in a educational/ professional manner...exactly what is evident that makes it a fake. It may be obvious to most, but the rest of us would appreciate the insight. " The white of the card should blend seamlessly into the border", " The top of the cap should not touch the border", " The background is never that orange" or whatever . Why is it a fake? When these are pointed out, and they are sometimes, it's invaluable to some of us. I may be the only one, but if it hadn't been for the guy in Tigonemetry class that constantly raised his hands and asked questions, we all would have failed. So after passing on your wisdom about the fake, go to the ER for your facial twitching.....but bring your laptop....it's a 3 hour wait

So someone posted a card that is a fake. They did it to help people like you, so you won't get ripped off. They don't owe you anything. They don't owe you an explanation. They have no obligation to even tell you it is fake in the first place. They are simply doing it to expose fraud within the hobby.

They weren't put on this board to serve you - they are being kind to aware the community of a fake card. None of them are "having a seizure" - they've all seen fake cards before. The only person who would have a seizure would be someone who learns it's fake after they've already been scammed.

[Bestdj777]

Every time I come across a fake 52 Mantle, that is not clearly fake, I try to post it on the board so no one here gets burned. I often do not identify the reason, because a lot of it is just a "know it when you see it" thing (will try to point out the reason in the future though, because it definitely could not hurt). If you look at enough real cards and enough fake cards, you can begin to spot obvious fakes. One thing I have learned from being on this board, is that there is no reason not to ask questions if you have any. If someone posts a fake, nothing stopping you from asking why. Also, if there is a card you are interested in buying, people will almost always give you feedback through PMs.

Also, as an aside, I've found the google search function very helpful when looking for archived threads on this board. You can limit your google search by site, and I've found that works well for finding past threads.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

So someone posted a card that is a fake. They did it to help people like you, so you won't get ripped off. They don't owe you anything. They don't owe you an explanation. They have no obligation to even tell you it is fake in the first place. They are simply doing it to expose fraud within the hobby.

They weren't put on this board to serve you - they are being kind to aware the community of a fake card. None of them are "having a seizure" - they've all seen fake cards before. The only person who would have a seizure would be someone who learns it's fake after they've already been scammed.

+1 Well said.

If someone points out that a card is a fake and you want to know why, PM that person and they will probably be glad to explain it to you. Believe it or not, the scammers read these boards too. On the hard to detect, not so obvious fakes, why point out the reasons on a public forum? So they can hone their skills and do a better job next time?

[the 'stache]

David, that's a great point. I never thought about the scammers coming here to learn.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+
If someone points out that a card is a fake and you want to know why, PM that person and they will probably be glad to explain it to you. Believe it or not, the scammers read these boards too. On the hard to detect, not so obvious fakes, why point out the reasons on a public forum? So they can hone their skills and do a better job next time?

David -

I don't buy that, at all. I'm not worried about scammers. They can read all they want here, but they can't fake cards properly enough to fool knowledgeable collectors because they're both too lazy and they don't know how to do it. I've never seen a "good" fake card in my life, up close. I'm opposed to withholding info that other collectors can use.

Bill

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

So someone posted a card that is a fake. They did it to help people like you, so you won't get ripped off. They don't owe you anything. They don't owe you an explanation. They have no obligation to even tell you it is fake in the first place. They are simply doing it to expose fraud within the hobby.

They weren't put on this board to serve you - they are being kind to aware the community of a fake card. None of them are "having a seizure" - they've all seen fake cards before. The only person who would have a seizure would be someone who learns it's fake after they've already been scammed.

I appreciate everyone's input. I apologize if I gave the impression I was "owed" something or that I thought you all were here to "serve me" . I was just trying to seek helpful information and rib you a little. This thread turned sour and I really apologize. I'll exit left and post no more to this subject
image.jpg

[CW]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

So someone posted a card that is a fake. They did it to help people like you, so you won't get ripped off. They don't owe you anything. They don't owe you an explanation. They have no obligation to even tell you it is fake in the first place. They are simply doing it to expose fraud within the hobby.

They weren't put on this board to serve you - they are being kind to aware the community of a fake card. None of them are "having a seizure" - they've all seen fake cards before. The only person who would have a seizure would be someone who learns it's fake after they've already been scammed.

Yeesh, lighten up a bit, eh? The guy started off his post saying it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, and when it came down to it he did have the courtesy to say "please" and that he's simply appreciate any insight. He just asked -- he didn't say anybody owed anyone else anything.

Man, sometimes y'all sound like a bunch of grumpy old men! It's a freaking HOBBY -- enjoy it and share your knowledge, as it will only encourage others to join in.

[D.P.Johnson]

Lots of good input and advice in this thread. It's nice to read everyone's opposing opinions while they remain relatively civil...