PSA vs SGC...the definitive Debate!!!

[4815162342]

PSA, SGC, and BVG all have the same flaw: they hire human beings. Human beings lack the ability to be completely impartial. Computers are impartial however and I believe in the not-too-distant future that image processing technology will lead to automated grading.

Yes, software architects and developers are human beings, but a programming flaw (for example, an improper angle calculation for off-center/miscut/diamond-cut detection) would impartially affect all cards, regardless of whether the subject was an E98 Wagner or a 1950 Callahan Wagner.

[wonkaticket]

Peter you left out PRO up there I love those guys.

[Matthew H]

I guess it's finally settled, PSA is better

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

PSA, SGC, and BVG all have the same flaw: they hire human beings.

True, but the humans at work at SGC include certain graders who have been there since the beginning of the company. Like I said, Bob Luce at SGC is terrific and is one of the people on this planet who actually should be grading T206 cards. When you submit a T206 to SGC, he is one of the guys there who will look at it.

In my experience, those who say PSA and SGC both make human mistakes tend to be PSA collectors who think the inconsistent grading they have in their collections would have been the same if they had SGC grade their cards. It wouldn't be the same. SGC is much more consistent.

Finally, what's up with the "baggie" on oversized T206s, PSA? Yuck!

[bobbyw8469]

SGC is much more consistent.

I wouldn't say that. I can show you around 50 Mutoscope cases that I had to crack out because SGC blew the grades on every single one of them. And I think BigDaddyBowman has a pic of all the SGC cases he had to break out because they blew his grades too.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I wouldn't say that. I can show you around 50 Mutoscope cases that I had to crack out because SGC blew the grades on every single one of them. And I think BigDaddyBowman has a pic of all the SGC cases he had to break out because they blew his grades too.

Sounds like SGC was consistent and you just disagreed with the grades. I would definitely like to see scans of what you are talking about. Mutoscope is non-sports? 1940s?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Sounds like SGC was consistent and you just disagreed with the grades.

I agree with this. Bobby, you may not have like the grades, but they were consistent. The Diver's License card does look better than the assigned grade. I agree with you there. However, none of us had the privilege to have the cards in hand so we really can't tell. SGC did and they saw something they didn't like.

Let me ask you this, Bobby. Would you rather have a card that, IN YOUR OPINION, was undergraded or would you rather have a card like this that is FOR A FACT overgraded?

[bobbyw8469]

David, PSA has something called a "Grade Guarantee". They are humans, same as the SGC graders grading mint vending box cards as 4's. The card you show was turned in for their "Grade Guarantee", reassigned the proper grade, and a check was cut for the monetary difference. Your disdain for PSA shows constantly, however, I can show you problems with BOTH graders. Let Big Chief rest.

[glynparson]

Agree 100%. SGC has made similar errors. In fact Id bet on percentage of cards graded the numbers are extremelly accurate.

[JohnP0621]

Regardless of who you like better. I think that both grading companys probably make a mistake on less than 1 out of every 100 cards. Both companys use humans to grade their cards . Sometimes I get a card graded and feel that it should have graded higher but other times I feel I got a better grade than the card deserves. But 99% of the time the grade is accurate. That happens with both graders. If you dont like the service dont use it. But grading is here to stay. So lets just move on to another subject.

John P

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

David, PSA has something called a "Grade Guarantee". They are humans, same as the SGC graders grading mint vending box cards as 4's. The card you show was turned in for their "Grade Guarantee", reassigned the proper grade, and a check was cut for the monetary difference. Your disdain for PSA shows constantly, however, I can show you problems with BOTH graders. Let Big Chief rest.

I agree with Bobby on this one, I've purchased many undergraded cards in SGC holders... Seller beware, I guess. Maybe you forgot to buddy up wih the graders. Next time bring pizza and beer.

I think SGC is too carefull with grades sometimes. The seller ends up losing our in these situations.

[jp1216]

I've always favored the SGC slab, customer service etc. In the mid '90s, my first SGC card was the '59 Mantle. Red on Black is amazing. Post war card in a SGC holder was rare. Still is, but I was hooked. Sent in 25 more '59s to get them graded. More for the look than the number on the label.

I too believe PSA (usually) brings more in resale - but I'm not collecting for resale. My heirs will be left a note saying "consider sending everything to PSA for more $$".

BGS slabs are too big - but are hurricane proof. PSAs are too easy (IMO) to fake or reseal.

OT: I can't stand those registries. I've seen too many 9s that look better than 10s - but are 'worth' 90% less because to the label. I even own a 10 with a wax stain on the back.

[JohnP0621]

Peter,
I am glad that you respect my opinion as I respect yours and everyone elses. That is all that I gave was my opinion based on my experience with both parties .You can disagree with me because Its only my opinion and it does not mean anything. I am sure you have your reasons for liking SGC. I usually dont get involved in these debates because its like discussing politics. Collecting T206 is only a Hobby for me and I dont get to wrapped up in all the debates on whos a better grader or anything else. I just enjoy the hobby. If we all had the same experience we would not be having this debate. If I am unhappy with a service I just dont use that service any more. A lot of collectors complain about the service but keep using it.
I am not advocating using either or any grading company. I just have had a better experience with PSA and so thats who I prefer. I wouldnt mind going back to the old days with no graders but those days are long gone. I used to prefer to buy ungraded cards but it is hard to get an honest accessment on the cards grades from some dealers and these cards are expensive so I only buy graded ones now, so that I dont get ripped off. I dont think any of the grading companys are out to screw any of us. I just think that it is an unperfect service and that the grades will always be debatable.

Happpy Collecting
Regards
John P

[AndyG09]

If PSA cards sell for more when sold, aren't you paying more for them when bought? Not sure how this might be advantageous?

Best,

Andy

[ullmandds]

c'mon, Barry! I'd love to hear it!!!!

[barrysloate]

I don't want to start rambling Peter, it's bad form. But when an 8 becomes a 9 the grading company is minting money. It's like the treasury printing hundred dollar bills. Nothing has been produced, it's just monopoly money. Is that good for the hobby? It's debatable.

But the money angle aside, grading is far too subjective and undefined for me. I would be a big supporter of it if it were really consistent among the major companies, and if it were done so precisely that one could rarely ever expect the grade to change upon resubmission. Then I would feel we've got something good. But how many times have you heard of people sending a card in three times and getting three different grades? Sorry, but it's not a system I have all that much faith in. But if I'm selling cards, which I don't do anymore, I'd get every one of them graded because the market dictates it. As a collector I wouldn't care one way or the other.