PAWN STARS Shoeless Joe Jackson signed book...

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Not really, Scott. We lawyer types call that "chain hearsay" and it has no value in court because it is not eyewitness evidence of anything.

Adam, that is exactly why this:

"The "Shoeless Joe Jackson" written on the lower portion of the page was written by the collector to identify who signed it."

and this:

"In the signed book, why was the "e" erased and rewritten? Because Joe didn't like the "e" he had signed, erased it, and signed it again. A forger would have to be real dumb to erase a letter and rewrite it. Why was the pressure heavy? Because he hardly ever used a pen and wanted to make sure his signature looked good."

bother me so much. This information, if firsthand, would be valuable. Otherwise, not so much. Yet it came out very quickly in response to doubts about the item. Firsthand is provenance. Anything else in my book is 'legend'. I have no quarrel (although I understand if others may) if it can be used to support any findings of fact. I have a big problem if it is used to attempt to prove a fact.

[travrosty]

old people lie as much as yong and middle age, and income has no bearing because it is greed, pride, and other reasons.

barry halper was middle aged, and he sure wasnt in the soup and bread line, had plenty of money, but still lied when he said he got the 500 home run sheet signed by babe ruth at yankee stadium at babe ruth day when halper was a little kid. that was a lie.

and that is the biggest example of how provenance stories may be nice, but cant be trusted, because everybody thought that if halper said it happened, then he is beyond reproach so it had to happen. there is even a quote out there by a respected member of the memorabilia community that said he trusted halpers word above all others and if halper said it was good, it was good and no need at all to question him.

but people lie sometimes and we need more than provenance.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by travrosty

old people lie as much as yong and middle age, and income has no bearing because it is greed, pride, and other reasons.

If you are responding to my post, I also said "If someone who was trusted ";i.e.-YOU (the purchaser) have complete trust in their word. There really are people out there who are not greedy, liars, prideful, etc.

I would be more concerned with an honest person forgetting the facts, as you mentioned earlier: people simply honestly forget things, and I think that has the most bearing when it comes to buying things such as "baseball used in 1909 World Series" or "Nap Rucker's no-hitter ball". Someone wrote on those balls a damned long time ago, but they might have done so 90 years ago (rather than 100), and gotten the balls confused during the post 10 years.