O/T feel sick inside - CT Elementary shooting

[Peter_Spaeth]

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

100% agreement on this one

[Big Six]

Living in Monroe, one town over from Newtown, this was a very scary day. With three kids - one elementary and two in middle school - having their schools put in lockdown, it was comforting to know they were safe but frustrating to know I couldn't go pick them up from the schools. So glad they are home safe and sound...and praying for the parents in Newtown who can't say the same...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

I'm thinking about removing your keyboard, as we all know that without a keyboard, you couldn't put words in my mouth.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I'm thinking about removing your keyboard, as we all know that without a keyboard, you couldn't put words in my mouth.

Scott did I mistake your meaning? Perhaps I misremembered our discussion on the Aurora thread?

[packs]

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

I think that's an aspirational goal with which everyone would agree, but how realistic is that? What specifically do you propose to do? What does it mean, let's get at the root of what drives people to kill?

[packs]

Not just murder in a singular act. But what is driving people to kill as many people as they can at once? Almost entirely strangers for the most part. Is it the celebrity that the media creates? Or is it driven by something else? In Asia they have had a slew of mass stabbing outbreaks at elementary schools. They have yet to understand why they're the target, much like we have yet to understand why mass killings happen so frequently in this country. I understand that a gun allows a person to inflict mass damage with minimum effort. But why is that person holding it?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Not just murder in a singular act. But what is driving people to kill as many people at once? Almost entirely strangers for the most part. Is it the celebrity that the media creates? Or is it driven by something else? In Asia they have had a slew of mass stabbing outbreaks at elementary schools. They have yet to understand why they're the target, much like we have yet to understand why mass killings happen so frequently in this country.

How do you propose to figure that out? Appoint a commission of psychologists to interview those perpetrators who survived and their families? I really don't understand how we could get meaningful answers or what we would do with them. Suppose a factor is publicity, can we ban media coverage of the next one?

[oldjudge]

This is an horrific situation and my thoughts go out to the families in this small Connecticut town. What I wonder is what has really changed in our society. Twenty years ago we never heard about this type of thing. Guns weren't any harder to get then. School security was less strict then. Just as many people drank and did drugs. No, I think this is something more basic. Maybe it's the violence in all the video games that kids play starting at such an early age. Maybe it's an overcrowded court system or a more forgiving judicial system which allows people who should be behind bars out on the streets. I don't know the answer --hopefully someone smarter than me will figure it out.

[cyseymour]

The biggest problem is that the media gets on the story and starts posting photos of the murderer and talking about his life. Then there are other sick people reading it who want the same attention. They turn murder into a theatrical performance, each time finding a new locale - a movie theater, a mall, a Sikh temple, an elementary school, etc. Just another cruel twist on the same theme, so they can be known as the "guy who did the murder in the _____." Just always finding a new way to shock people.

The media has got to stop publishing the names of the murderers. Otherwise, the whole thing will never end. Anytime they talk about the murderer's life, it is just another advertisement to encourage another shooting. If they stopped calling the murderer by name, you'd see the rate of the shootings decrease, and fast. Stop giving them the spotlight.

[packs]

I don't have answers. I only have questions too. But its obvious that something is driving these actions because not too many other countries have mass murders, especially as frequently as we do. And a lot of these events take place in school settings. Is it the access to guns? Maybe. But what would they be doing without them? Even scarier to think about in a sense. Someone brought up McVee earlier.

There has to be some subversive element to daily life in this country. I think if we discovered what that was we would at least have something to build from. I would prefer that to: what do you expect us to do about it.

[Vintageismygame]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

The biggest problem is that the media gets on the story and starts posting photos of the murderer and talking about his life. Then there are other sick people reading it who want the same attention. They turn murder into a theatrical performance, each time finding a new locale - a movie theater, a mall, a Sikh temple, an elementary school, etc. Just another cruel twist on the same theme, so they can be known as the "guy who did the murder in the _____." Just always finding a new way to shock people.

The media has got to stop publishing the names of the murderers. Otherwise, the whole thing will never end. Anytime they talk about the murderer's life, it is just another advertisement to encourage another shooting. If they stopped calling the murderer by name, you'd see the rate of the shootings decrease, and fast. Stop giving them the spotlight.

I agree 100%

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

You can take away guns if your goal is to limit death. But for me one death is too many. You have to get to the root of why people are driven to kill like this to effect society as a whole. You can't have the mentality that limiting death is good. Which I think is the perspective of people who want to take all guns away. It's avoiding the larger societal issues and pressures we as a society don't understand yet. I'd like to get to the root of that and put gun control debates on hold.

Well-said. We're a society that likes to fix symptoms. It's horrible what happened today in Connecticut - perhaps the most horrible thing I've heard about in many years.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott did I mistake your meaning? Perhaps I misremembered our discussion on the Aurora thread?

Yes, this part: "in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment"

I have never suggested that we should try to identify all people with mental illness. And I never suggested as much in the Aurora thread.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yes, this part: "in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment"

I have never suggested that we should try to identify all people with mental illness. And I never suggested as much in the Aurora thread.

OK my bad, I overstated your point of view and I apologize.

[oldjudge]

Peter--but little school children. I never heard of that. If I missed it, shame on me. However, I think things have changed and society has to do something about it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jay I don't disagree that violence is much more pervasive now in our culture, but what role that plays in any given case, who knows.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--but little school children. I never heard of that.

Unfortunately, something similar happened a few years back in the county just west of where I live. The place was Nickel Mines, PA (Lancaster County) and someone unleashed the same ugly, senseless, lethal violence in a one room schoolhouse.

The feeling I had that day I am experiencing again now...utter sadness. I also find that I am asking myself a question and looking for an answer I am unlikely to find. Why on earth would anyone do this?

Peace,

Eric

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

OK my bad, I overstated your point of view and I apologize.

Thanks Peter.

Edited to remove some content. After reading Ben's post in the other thread, I'm thinking this is a subject where 99% of the board are totally ignorant. I've retracted my decision to share anything with such people.

[bbcarddan]

Hearing the news of this senseless tragedy makes me sick to my stomach. The school bus could not get my 5 year old daughter back to me fast enough today!

Obviously everyone is saddened and upset about what has happened today,but regardless which side you are on the gun control topic can wait. Just my opinion.

At this time I can only think of the families and what they are going through! My thoughts and prayers are with them!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bbcarddan

Hearing the news of this senseless tragedy makes me sick to my stomach. The school bus could not get my 5 year old daughter back to me fast enough today!

Obviously everyone is saddened and upset about what has happened today,but regardless which side you are on the gun control topic can wait. Just my opinion.

At this time I can only think of the families and what they are going through! My thoughts and prayers are with them!

That's true, but you have to remember that the order is: sympathy for the victims, fix the symptoms, vengeance. Some people are already at 'fix the symptoms' stage, which is understandable.

[Matthew H]

This event is very different from past mass murders, at least to me. I'd be very surprised if this in not the event that brings on some sort of change. I don't think an assault rifle ban would do anything, I also think that banning guns all together is never going happen. Mental illness will continue to be a non-issue and some families will continue to ignore their loved ones problems until it blows up in their face.

I don't know if, as a society, we'll ever see an end to this level of violence. I believe it's now part of the "norm". I would like to see people draw a line, though, where very young children are involved. I believe we should spare no expense at protecting them.

Of the top of my head, I'm thinking that a system, much like a fire alarm, that can trip an alarm and lock every classroom door from the inside, allowing exit but no entry until help arrives, be installed in every school.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott, sure, maybe in a perfect world we could identify all paranoid schizophrenics at an early age and get them the treatment they need. But in the meantime, maybe politicians for once ought to show some cojones and take assault weapons off the table and stand up to the NRA. Yeah, we know the bullshit that people kill people guns don't, but there is no reason on earth for any civilian to be able to purchase an assault weapon. And it's too damn easy to buy a regular gun in this country too.

But I am pessimistic anything will change.

Peter, in a BETTER world, we'd at least try to identify SOME of them, and try to get them treatment. If not for themselves, which I realize very few people could care less about anyone with mental illness, then for the people they affect through killings like this.

I'm in agreement with you on removing assault weapons. That would force people who want to kill, to choose alternative methods - like Timothy McVee did.

[Touch'EmAll]

Geklund311 - we have to start somewhere by making it illegal to own "X" type gun. Better to start somewhere than not to start at all and shove our faces in the ground and ignore it.

Change takes time, we need to start somewhere.

I am still trembling with the occasional tear.

[Gecklund311]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Geklund311 - we have to start somewhere by making it illegal to own "X" type gun. Better to start somewhere than not to start at all and shove our faces in the ground and ignore it.

Change takes time, we need to start somewhere.

I am still trembling with the occasional tear.

Making it illegal to own "X" gun is pretty much ignoring it - it is a solution designed to make the supporters feel good that they are "doing something" about the problem. I lived in Chicago for a few years, and the gun laws are quite tough there (a good thing, IMO), but that doesn't prevent people there from killing each other at an alarming rate. Gun laws, however well intentioned, don't work so well when parts of society have no intention of following them.

The larger problem is a kind of societal rot, with gun violence as a symptom. There are too many kids growing up in broken homes, and many others whose parents have checked out and don't take their job with the seriousness that it deserves. Even growing up in the suburbs, I was amazed at how many of my friends had parents who had no clue how to talk to them - they were essentially raised by television and Nintendo. Those kids often grow up emotionally stunted, not feeling that they have anyone that they can really talk to, and I would suspect that many of the spree shooters that we've been seeing more of were raised in those circumstances.

[ChrisH]

Unlike many of you here, I'm not a father. I do have 4 nephews and 1 niece though who are very dear to my heart. I can't imagine what it'd be like to lose them in a place where they are supposed to be safest. In school. Like some of you have said, I never once felt unsafe in school. Its really a sad day when we have to worry about sending kids to school for fear that one of us may get that phone call that a little one we hold near and dear to our hearts will no longer grace us with their presence on this Earth.