Braun Suspended for Balance of the 2013 Season

[kmac32]

They need to take his MVP award away. Too bad he got off on a technicality before. Cheater and a liar.

[BlueDevil89]

Originally Posted by kmac32

They need to take his MVP award away. Too bad he got off on a technicality before. Cheater and a liar.

Pulling the MVP award would be morally justified (if not technically supported by "the rules"). Unfortunately, the 2011 NL MVP Award is really a joke. At the very least, it should be assigned an asterisk (*). If Maris had one next to his 61 home run season all those years, Braun's MVP deserves a permanent one in the record books.

[HRBAKER]

My people have seen the goods you have on me and I have been advised that this is my best option.

Meanwhile he will be back next year to enjoy the fruits of his contract that may well be based on results that were in part artificially produced.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Teams should try to include clauses in player contracts allowing the contract to be voided if there is a positive test.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

My people have seen the goods you have on me and I have been advised that this is my best option.

Meanwhile he will be back next year to enjoy the fruits of his contract that may well be based on results that were in part artificially produced.

I thought that is an interesting point. Isnt he playing at a higher salary next year? Thus he is better off financially by not contesting the test.

[alanu]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

I thought that is an interesting point. Isnt he playing at a higher salary next year? Thus he is better off financially by not contesting the test.

The Brewers might be in contention next year too so why not take off the rest of this year when they are already out of it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by kmac32

They need to take his MVP award away. Too bad he got off on a technicality before. Cheater and a liar.

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Is anyone except Derek Jeter clean?

[AndyG09]

Did the guy who worked for MLB lose his job after the technicality? It will be interesting to see what comes of his career from this point on.

Best,

Andy

[glchen]

Originally Posted by AndyG09

Did the guy who worked for MLB lose his job after the technicality? It will be interesting to see what comes of his career from this point on.

Best,

Andy

I thought that the arbitrator who ruled in favor of Braun got fired. Maybe it was both of them. Personally, I don't think we're at the end of the steroid era, more like the middle, since HGH is so hard to catch.

[quinnsryche]

I hope they catch and expel every last one of these cheatin' bastards. They guys on MLB made a good point today. They said that from now on anyone caught cheating should be exempt from any award (MVP, Cy Young etc.), all star team or any accolade they may be given in the future. Teams should also be allowed to void any contract if a player is found guilty. I agree 100%. I vote for lifetime banishment after any offense. 1 and done. Get out and stay out. The days of McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Rodriguez, Braun and all the others are OVER stating right now.

[DixieBaseball]

I wonder if he was cheating back when he played with the Nashville Sounds? Yet another clean player's roster spot has been stolen from them. Glad to see baseball continue to move in the right direction. I would like to not only see a suspension, but also make the player go down to Triple A to spend a year probation. I think this would really curb the cheating. Spending a year back down in the minor's would be very sobering after being in the big's... I don't think taking money away sends the message. Time to ride the bus again for several months might change the thinking...

[drcy]

If Braun's career tanks and the Brewers are on the hook for $100 million, that will work as incentive for the teams, the folks signing the contracts, to prevent players from taking PEDs.

Everyone but the ostriches in Wisconsin said he was probably on PEDs. If the Brewers were still willing to sign him to a $100 million contract, that's their own fault when he gets caught. Maybe next time the Brewers will steer clear of players they know are PED users.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by drcy

If Braun's career tanks and the Brewers are on the hook for $100 million, that will work as incentive for the teams, the folks signing the contracts, to prevent players from taking PEDs.

Everyone but the ostriches in Wisconsin said he was probably on PEDs. If the Brewers were still willing to sign him to a $100 million contract, that's their own fault when he gets caught. Maybe next time the Brewers will steer clear of players they know are PED users.

Don't let anything like the facts get in the way of your stupid diatribe.

Ryan Braun signed his extension prior to the 2011 season (April of 2011). His positive urine test came in the postseason of the 2011 season (October 2011), and the story broke in December of 2011. Eight months later.

So, by what stretch of the imagination did the Brewers extend a known PED user?

As for us "ostriches" in Wisconsin, I'm relatively certain that every single Brewers fan, myself included, accepted that there was a very good possibility that Ryan Braun was indeed guilty of what he'd been accused. The difference between us and everybody else, it seems, is that we decided to wait for the facts to come out before assassinating somebody's reputation. A lot of people were ready to take what ESPN was reporting as cold-hard facts, even though their story seemingly changed by the day ("Ryan Braun is being suspended for using PED". "Ryan Braun is being suspended for using a banned substance". "Ryan Braun tested positive for a banned substance being used to treat a STD".) ESPN completely lacks in journalistic integrity, yet people were treating their word as the Bible. Never mind that the appeals process in place for baseball players was supposed to be confidential. ESPN didn't care if they ruined his reputation sans facts. They cared more about their web hits, their television ratings, and their magazine sales.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is anyone except Derek Jeter clean?

How would you have any idea that Jeter has played clean during his entire career? I wouldn't assume anyone has played clean unless you were with them 100% of the time. Nothing against you Peter, it just bothers me when people say without doubt that certain people were clean and are willing to just believe rumors on other players(Jeff Bagwell for example)

[drumback]

What makes you so sure Jeter is clean?

[stewbacca]

I don't think we will ever find out what Braun did or took. Part of this apology and acceptance of his 65 game ban was done with attourneys and legal counsel which probably allows him to not admit publicly what exactly he did or took as long as he says "I have made mistakes and will do better". As a West coast Brewers fan since around 1980, there is no way I can defend Braun and his attitude over the past few years about his positive test. He beat the test on a technicality. Then he goes all Lance Armstong on anyone who would try to say differently(news conference about beating the test? I told you I was clean?). Was he taking them before the big contract? Did he take them only for the playoffs? We will never know and Mr Braun will never admit publicly what he did...there is no reason to. He will sit out his 65 games and start collecting his big contract again next season. We are a forgiving society.....even without being asked.

[slidekellyslide]

I think we are nearing the end of the PED era in baseball...the union has finally decided they are no longer going to stand behind the users. I believe the penalties will get stiffer now. It should be test once and you're done for a full year, and the team should have the right to cut you loose without paying the contract. Test twice and you get a lifetime ban...the same ban that Rose got, no association with baseball at all...you want to watch a game, you buy a ticket. No participation in any baseball sanctioned events. Persona non grata.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I think we are nearing the end of the PED era in baseball...the union has finally decided they are no longer going to stand behind the users. I believe the penalties will get stiffer now. It should be test once and you're done for a full year, and the team should have the right to cut you loose without paying the contract. Test twice and you get a lifetime ban...the same ban that Rose got, no association with baseball at all...you want to watch a game, you buy a ticket. No participation in any baseball sanctioned events. Persona non grata.

agree with this, should be 1st time out for season...2nd offense means lifetime. imo this will still not deter some latin/central american players who came from nothing and will still risk it for the payday.

sorry i didn't read the walls of text, but of course braun cheated...with PED! he's laying down like a dog because he knows he's at a dead-end and if he fights it any longer the WHOLE truth will come out. interesting to hear from the "insiders" that he's not very well-liked with the players because he's a cheater who got off on a technicality.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by kmac32

They need to take his MVP award away. Too bad he got off on a technicality before. Cheater and a liar.

I'm very disappointed that Ryan used something he should not have, and whatever the suspension is (65 games, the remainder of the season, iirc), it is completely justified. What Ryan has done is an embarrassment to the game I love, the franchise I have followed since childhood, and it bothers me on a personal level. I hate that he did something against the rules, and that he has lied about it. But, I also hope at some point the truth comes out, because right now, speculation is running rampant. Media outlets are still running stories still filled with a lot of half-truths and conjecture. Things like "Braun has admitted to using PED". Nowhere has he done this. He did not admit to using PED in the statement he issued today. In fact, it was reported several times after the story first broke that he was going to be suspended not for PED, but for a banned substance, which could be one of a hundred different things.

The "his MVP should be taken away" talk is ridiculous. The MVP is a regular season award, and there is no proof whatsoever that Braun used anything before the postseason of 2011. He passed every single drug test while in the minor leagues, and every test administered from 2007 through the 2011 regular season. As for his "getting off on a technicality", no, he didn't. There are carefully established protocols for handling biological specimens used in the drug testing program, and if they are not followed, it is proper to throw that sample out, and not employ any of the testing results in furthering punitive action. Ryan Braun's urine sample was taken home by the collector, and placed in a Tupperware container in his basement for two days when it was clear there were several Fed Ex locations open between the collector's home and Miller Park (including at least one that took shipments 24 hours a day). Dino Laurenzi did not follow procedure. There is no debating this. Once it was determined that proper handling requirements had not been followed, the sample should have been destroyed. Period. Any test results from the sample are in essence fruit from the poisonous tree.

I have felt from the beginning that there was a strong possibility Ryan did not use a performance enhancer, but something that would help heal the calf muscle injury he'd been suffering with for much of the 2011 season's second half. By the letter of the drug policy agreed upon by MLB and the MLBPA, it wouldn't matter, as it's still breaking the rules, but I could at least understand that, if not condone it.

Right now, I am angry, and disappointed. He could, of course, be guilty of everything he's been accused of. But absent the facts (facts like the written opinion of independent arbiter Shyam Sad), we really don't know everything that happened. He might have been cheating all along, or he might have taken something to heal, not expecting to get tested before the post season. Who knows. But this talk of Ryan Braun being a "scum bag" is a little over the top. I am sure every single one of us have done something we wish we could go back and do differently. I know I have. But Braun is not some low life. He did something stupid, for which he should absolutely serve his suspension. But human beings make mistakes, and if he asks for forgiveness, and truly regrets what he did, I for one will forgive him, and cheer for him again. I hope he's learned from his mistake. More than anything, I am glad that this is now over.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

.....Ryan Braun's urine sample was taken home by the collector...

Was the collector anybody on this board? Hell, people collect everything these days....

Sadly, Kemp probably should have been the MVP when Braun was given the honor... in any case, I don't think the award should be taken from him becuase then you might as well go back to Barry's MVP awards and trash those also. I'm sure there are others that can have their awards (MVP, Cy Young, etc) taken but the fact is the stats are in the books. However, going forward it would be nice to see a "cleaned up" version of baseball, even without all of the HRs. A little small ball is fun to watch.

It would just be nice to see ALL of the clean players step up to the plate and call "bull $hit" on the players that cheat. Have the players in the union agree to heavy suspensions or expulsion if the player is caught cheating. A nice level playing field would be nice. - just my 2 cents...

[Exhibitman]

If the union and league were serious about cleaning up the game the remedy for a positive would include granting the team the option of voiding the balance of the player's contract and lifetime random WADA-style testing for the balance of the player's time in MLB. A suspension doesn't mean squat to a guy like Braun who can strategize to lessen the impact of the suspension and remain on a massive long-term contract. Heck, he can use the rest of the season to rest up, train and cycle steroid regimens [I kid the Braunmeister] in preparation for next year.

[steve B]

Stiff penalties won't stop it. I doubt much will.

A few quotes from another sport, one that began testing in the 60's, and has fairly stiff penalties. And STILL has people removed from its premier event every year.

"The top riders are obliged to be fresh each time and they can't do that without stimulants. Nobody could or ever will be able to do that because there are no such things as supermen. Doping is necessary in cycling."

Rik van Steenbergen, a top pro in the 40s and 50s

"My closets now will be empty of syringes and prohibited substances. The majority of racers resort to drug products, and those who refuse to admit it are liars."

Dietrich Thurau, many pro wins in 70s and 80s

"I do not wish to hear spoken the word doping. Rather, one must say 'treating yourself,' and speak of treatments that are not appropriate for ordinary mortals. You cannot compete in the Tour de France on mineral water alone."

Jacques Anquetil, Won TDF five times in 50s and 60s

"In 1924, the legendary Pelissier brothers-noted as much for their brutal attacks on the road as their criticism of Tour organizers-abandoned the race over what they considered to be an unfair ruling. Pélissier, Francis and another rider, Maurice Ville, abandoned the Tour at Coutances in 1924 after Desgrange had not let Pélissier to take off a jersey as the sun came up. They were met in the station café by the journalist Albert Londres, who normally wrote about social and international affairs but was following the Tour for Le Petit Parisien. Londres' piece, reproduced largely as a dialogue, appeared under the headline Les Forçats de la Route.
"You wouldn't believe that all this is about nothing more than a few jerseys. This morning, in Cherbourg, a race official came up to me and without a word, he pulled up my jersey to check that I'm not wearing two. What would you say if I pulled open your waistcoat to see if your shirt was clean? That's the way these people behave and I won't stand for it. That's what this is all about." "But what if you were wearing two jerseys?" "That's the point. If I want to, I can wear 15. What I can't do is start with two and finish with only one." "Why not?" "Because that's the rule. We don't only have to work like donkeys, we have to freeze or suffocate as well. Apparently that's an important part of the sport. So I went off to find Desgrange. 'I can't throw my jersey on the road, then?' 'No,' he said, 'you can't throw away anything provided by the organisation.' 'But this isn't the organisation's—it's mine.' "'I don't conduct arguments in the street,' he said. 'OK,' I said, 'if you're not prepared to talk about it in the street, I'm going back to bed.' "'We'll sort it all out in Brest', he said. It will definitely be sorted out in Brest, I said, because I'm quitting. And I did."
Pélissier went to his brother, Francis, told him his decision and encouraged him to do the same. Francis said that suited him because he had a bad stomach and no enthusiasm for racing. Ville said he hadn't been part of the strike but that the other two had picked him up along the road. He was too tired to go on, he said.
"You have no idea what the Tour de France is,' Henri said. "It's a calvary. And what's more, the way to the cross only had 14 stations — we've got 15.[7] We suffer on the road. But do you want to see how we keep going? Wait...' From his bag he takes a phial. "That, that's cocaine for our eyes and chloroform for our gums..." "Here," said Ville, tipping out the contents of his bag, "horse liniment to keep my knees warm. And pills? You want to see the pills?" They got out three boxes apiece. "In short," said Francis, "we run on dynamite.' Henri takes up the story. "You ever seen the baths at the finish? It's worth buying a ticket. You go in plastered with mud and you come out as white as a sheet. We're drained all the time by diarrhoea. Have a look at the water. We can't sleep at night. We're twitching as if we've got St Vitus's Dance. You see my shoelaces? They're leather, as hard as nails, but they're always breaking. So imagine what happens to our skin. And our toenails. I've lost six. They fall off a bit at a time all through the stage. They wouldn't treat mules the way we're treated. We're not weaklings, but my God, they treat us so brutally. And if I so much as stick a newspaper under my jersey at the start, they check to see it's still there at the finish. One day they'll start putting lumps of lead in our pocket because God made men too light."
Londres had the best colour piece he'd ever written, although Francis claimed afterwards they'd taken advantage of his gullibility by exaggerating.*

*It should be noted that the Pellissiers were know for having an odd sense of humor, some think the entire thing was a put -on.


The earliest case in cycling was 1886.

Steve B

[HRBAKER]

I think voided contracts will stop it
Of course the owners would have the stones to do it.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

There need to be conditions to make them voidable. Owners cannot just go around deciding they dont want to pay anymore.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by steve B

Stiff penalties won't stop it. I doubt much will.

A few quotes from another sport, one that began testing in the 60's, and has fairly stiff penalties. And STILL has people removed from its premier event every year.

"The top riders are obliged to be fresh each time and they can't do that without stimulants. Nobody could or ever will be able to do that because there are no such things as supermen. Doping is necessary in cycling."

Rik van Steenbergen, a top pro in the 40s and 50s

"My closets now will be empty of syringes and prohibited substances. The majority of racers resort to drug products, and those who refuse to admit it are liars."

Dietrich Thurau, many pro wins in 70s and 80s

"I do not wish to hear spoken the word doping. Rather, one must say 'treating yourself,' and speak of treatments that are not appropriate for ordinary mortals. You cannot compete in the Tour de France on mineral water alone."

Jacques Anquetil, Won TDF five times in 50s and 60s

"In 1924, the legendary Pelissier brothers-noted as much for their brutal attacks on the road as their criticism of Tour organizers-abandoned the race over what they considered to be an unfair ruling. Pélissier, Francis and another rider, Maurice Ville, abandoned the Tour at Coutances in 1924 after Desgrange had not let Pélissier to take off a jersey as the sun came up. They were met in the station café by the journalist Albert Londres, who normally wrote about social and international affairs but was following the Tour for Le Petit Parisien. Londres' piece, reproduced largely as a dialogue, appeared under the headline Les Forçats de la Route.
"You wouldn't believe that all this is about nothing more than a few jerseys. This morning, in Cherbourg, a race official came up to me and without a word, he pulled up my jersey to check that I'm not wearing two. What would you say if I pulled open your waistcoat to see if your shirt was clean? That's the way these people behave and I won't stand for it. That's what this is all about." "But what if you were wearing two jerseys?" "That's the point. If I want to, I can wear 15. What I can't do is start with two and finish with only one." "Why not?" "Because that's the rule. We don't only have to work like donkeys, we have to freeze or suffocate as well. Apparently that's an important part of the sport. So I went off to find Desgrange. 'I can't throw my jersey on the road, then?' 'No,' he said, 'you can't throw away anything provided by the organisation.' 'But this isn't the organisation's—it's mine.' "'I don't conduct arguments in the street,' he said. 'OK,' I said, 'if you're not prepared to talk about it in the street, I'm going back to bed.' "'We'll sort it all out in Brest', he said. It will definitely be sorted out in Brest, I said, because I'm quitting. And I did."
Pélissier went to his brother, Francis, told him his decision and encouraged him to do the same. Francis said that suited him because he had a bad stomach and no enthusiasm for racing. Ville said he hadn't been part of the strike but that the other two had picked him up along the road. He was too tired to go on, he said.
"You have no idea what the Tour de France is,' Henri said. "It's a calvary. And what's more, the way to the cross only had 14 stations — we've got 15.[7] We suffer on the road. But do you want to see how we keep going? Wait...' From his bag he takes a phial. "That, that's cocaine for our eyes and chloroform for our gums..." "Here," said Ville, tipping out the contents of his bag, "horse liniment to keep my knees warm. And pills? You want to see the pills?" They got out three boxes apiece. "In short," said Francis, "we run on dynamite.' Henri takes up the story. "You ever seen the baths at the finish? It's worth buying a ticket. You go in plastered with mud and you come out as white as a sheet. We're drained all the time by diarrhoea. Have a look at the water. We can't sleep at night. We're twitching as if we've got St Vitus's Dance. You see my shoelaces? They're leather, as hard as nails, but they're always breaking. So imagine what happens to our skin. And our toenails. I've lost six. They fall off a bit at a time all through the stage. They wouldn't treat mules the way we're treated. We're not weaklings, but my God, they treat us so brutally. And if I so much as stick a newspaper under my jersey at the start, they check to see it's still there at the finish. One day they'll start putting lumps of lead in our pocket because God made men too light."
Londres had the best colour piece he'd ever written, although Francis claimed afterwards they'd taken advantage of his gullibility by exaggerating.*

*It should be noted that the Pellissiers were know for having an odd sense of humor, some think the entire thing was a put -on.


The earliest case in cycling was 1886.

Steve B

Steve, it's been said that as long as there is the incentive to cheat, the cheaters will always stay ahead of the testing methods. We may just have to realize that there is no way to ever completely clean up baseball. If they were able to reduce drug usage, the players would find another edge. I guess it's human nature. It doesn't make things any easier. I'd love to know that everybody was on an even playing field. But it sounds like a dream at this point unfortunately.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by steve B

Stiff penalties won't stop it. I doubt much will.

A few quotes from another sport, one that began testing in the 60's, and has fairly stiff penalties. And STILL has people removed from its premier event every year.

"The top riders are obliged to be fresh each time and they can't do that without stimulants. Nobody could or ever will be able to do that because there are no such things as supermen. Doping is necessary in cycling."

Rik van Steenbergen, a top pro in the 40s and 50s

"My closets now will be empty of syringes and prohibited substances. The majority of racers resort to drug products, and those who refuse to admit it are liars."

Dietrich Thurau, many pro wins in 70s and 80s

"I do not wish to hear spoken the word doping. Rather, one must say 'treating yourself,' and speak of treatments that are not appropriate for ordinary mortals. You cannot compete in the Tour de France on mineral water alone."

Jacques Anquetil, Won TDF five times in 50s and 60s

"In 1924, the legendary Pelissier brothers-noted as much for their brutal attacks on the road as their criticism of Tour organizers-abandoned the race over what they considered to be an unfair ruling. Pélissier, Francis and another rider, Maurice Ville, abandoned the Tour at Coutances in 1924 after Desgrange had not let Pélissier to take off a jersey as the sun came up. They were met in the station café by the journalist Albert Londres, who normally wrote about social and international affairs but was following the Tour for Le Petit Parisien. Londres' piece, reproduced largely as a dialogue, appeared under the headline Les Forçats de la Route.
"You wouldn't believe that all this is about nothing more than a few jerseys. This morning, in Cherbourg, a race official came up to me and without a word, he pulled up my jersey to check that I'm not wearing two. What would you say if I pulled open your waistcoat to see if your shirt was clean? That's the way these people behave and I won't stand for it. That's what this is all about." "But what if you were wearing two jerseys?" "That's the point. If I want to, I can wear 15. What I can't do is start with two and finish with only one." "Why not?" "Because that's the rule. We don't only have to work like donkeys, we have to freeze or suffocate as well. Apparently that's an important part of the sport. So I went off to find Desgrange. 'I can't throw my jersey on the road, then?' 'No,' he said, 'you can't throw away anything provided by the organisation.' 'But this isn't the organisation's—it's mine.' "'I don't conduct arguments in the street,' he said. 'OK,' I said, 'if you're not prepared to talk about it in the street, I'm going back to bed.' "'We'll sort it all out in Brest', he said. It will definitely be sorted out in Brest, I said, because I'm quitting. And I did."
Pélissier went to his brother, Francis, told him his decision and encouraged him to do the same. Francis said that suited him because he had a bad stomach and no enthusiasm for racing. Ville said he hadn't been part of the strike but that the other two had picked him up along the road. He was too tired to go on, he said.
"You have no idea what the Tour de France is,' Henri said. "It's a calvary. And what's more, the way to the cross only had 14 stations — we've got 15.[7] We suffer on the road. But do you want to see how we keep going? Wait...' From his bag he takes a phial. "That, that's cocaine for our eyes and chloroform for our gums..." "Here," said Ville, tipping out the contents of his bag, "horse liniment to keep my knees warm. And pills? You want to see the pills?" They got out three boxes apiece. "In short," said Francis, "we run on dynamite.' Henri takes up the story. "You ever seen the baths at the finish? It's worth buying a ticket. You go in plastered with mud and you come out as white as a sheet. We're drained all the time by diarrhoea. Have a look at the water. We can't sleep at night. We're twitching as if we've got St Vitus's Dance. You see my shoelaces? They're leather, as hard as nails, but they're always breaking. So imagine what happens to our skin. And our toenails. I've lost six. They fall off a bit at a time all through the stage. They wouldn't treat mules the way we're treated. We're not weaklings, but my God, they treat us so brutally. And if I so much as stick a newspaper under my jersey at the start, they check to see it's still there at the finish. One day they'll start putting lumps of lead in our pocket because God made men too light."
Londres had the best colour piece he'd ever written, although Francis claimed afterwards they'd taken advantage of his gullibility by exaggerating.*

*It should be noted that the Pellissiers were know for having an odd sense of humor, some think the entire thing was a put -on.


The earliest case in cycling was 1886.

Steve B

Steve, it's been said that as long as there is the incentive to cheat, the cheaters will always stay ahead of the testing methods. We may just have to realize that there is no way to ever completely clean up baseball. If they were able to reduce drug usage, the players would find another edge. I guess it's human nature. It doesn't make things any easier. I'd love to know that everybody was on an even playing field. But it sounds like a dream at this point unfortunately.

[Jcfowler6]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewe...216852651.html

Just an article.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Steve, it's been said that as long as there is the incentive to cheat, the cheaters will always stay ahead of the testing methods. We may just have to realize that there is no way to ever completely clean up baseball. If they were able to reduce drug usage, the players would find another edge. I guess it's human nature. It doesn't make things any easier. I'd love to know that everybody was on an even playing field. But it sounds like a dream at this point unfortunately.

That was pretty much my point. There will always be a way to get an edge. some legal, some not.

Many things currently banned were ok at one time, blood doping was controversial in the 80's and is banned now. (Train at altitude, have blood taken while it's rich in red cells, then just prior to competition have that blood put back in. - Instant improvement in oxygen capacity) That was relatively safe, EPO does the same thing but isn't.

The 1880's case in cycling involved a mix of cocaine, caffeine and strychnine. It apparently was neither unusual or illegal at the time.

In the 30's many athletes smoked, holding the belief that it would open up the lungs.

It's simply not stoppable no matter what penalty is involved.

That's not to say there shouldn't be penalties, WADA typically issues a 2 year suspension for the first offense.

Now if people want to retroactively take away awards and records......
Illegal substances are banned right?
And Alcohol was illegal from 1920-1933.
So I'm thinking a ton of records need to be reassessed.

Welcome our new HR record holders! Roger Connor and Gavvy Cravath. (Ok, maybe Gherig instead of Connor)

Steve B
(My edge in softball was being a swing for the fences pull hitter in BP, and a singles hitter to all fields in the game. I think it was legal, and worked great till people caught on to it.)

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

So now Ryan Braun and Barry Bonds have failed the same number of drug tests. By your logic Bonds is even more innocent than Braun because he never admitted to anything.

[QUOTE=the 'stache;1161727]I'm very disappointed that Ryan used something he should not have, and whatever the suspension is (65 games, the remainder of the season, iirc), it is completely justified. What Ryan has done is an embarrassment to the game I love, the franchise I have followed since childhood, and it bothers me on a personal level. I hate that he did something against the rules, and that he has lied about it. But, I also hope at some point the truth comes out, because right now, speculation is running rampant. Media outlets are still running stories still filled with a lot of half-truths and conjecture. Things like "Braun has admitted to using PED". Nowhere has he done this. He did not admit to using PED in the statement he issued today. In fact, it was reported several times after the story first broke that he was going to be suspended not for PED, but for a banned substance, which could be one of a hundred different things.

The "his MVP should be taken away" talk is ridiculous. The MVP is a regular season award, and there is no proof whatsoever that Braun used anything before the postseason of 2011. He passed every single drug test while in the minor leagues, and every test administered from 2007 through the 2011 regular season. As for his "getting off on a technicality", no, he didn't. There are carefully established protocols for handling biological specimens used in the drug testing program, and if they are not followed, it is proper to throw that sample out, and not employ any of the testing results in furthering punitive action. Ryan Braun's urine sample was taken home by the collector, and placed in a Tupperware container in his basement for two days when it was clear there were several Fed Ex locations open between the collector's home and Miller Park (including at least one that took shipments 24 hours a day). Dino Laurenzi did not follow procedure. There is no debating this. Once it was determined that proper handling requirements had not been followed, the sample should have been destroyed. Period. Any test results from the sample are in essence fruit from the poisonous tree.

I have felt from the beginning that there was a strong possibility Ryan did not use a performance enhancer, but something that would help heal the calf muscle injury he'd been suffering with for much of the 2011 season's second half. By the letter of the drug policy agreed upon by MLB and the MLBPA, it wouldn't matter, as it's still breaking the rules, but I could at least understand that, if not condone it.

Right now, I am angry, and disappointed. He could, of course, be guilty of everything he's been accused of. But absent the facts (facts like the written opinion of independent arbiter Shyam Sad), we really don't know everything that happened. He might have been cheating all along, or he might have taken something to heal, not expecting to get tested before the post season. Who knows. But this talk of Ryan Braun being a "scum bag" is a little over the top. I am sure every single one of us have done something we wish we could go back and do differently. I know I have. But Braun is not some low life. He did something stupid, for which he should absolutely serve his suspension. But human beings make mistakes, and if he asks for forgiveness, and truly regrets what he did, I for one will forgive him, and cheer for him again. I hope he's learned from his mistake. More than anything, I am glad that this is now over.[/QUOTE]