Altered high grade E93s in Mile High?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Either reason: sending to SGC and want an "unbiased" grade, or sending back to PSA but would rather crack out and try again then send back in for review.

So why return the certs, especially in the second case where it just telegraphs that the card already has been graded whatever it was graded?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So why return the certs, especially in the second case where it just telegraphs that the card already has been graded whatever it was graded?

To keep the population low. They could wait until after the cards are re-graded to return the certs.

[ergoism]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So why return the certs, especially in the second case where it just telegraphs that the card already has been graded whatever it was graded?

I think that a lot of people view it as proper etiquette to return the certs so that the population report remains closer to accurate. And for lower pop cards, as was stated above, it's important to not add unnecessary tallies to the pop report.

Edited to add: I don't think anyone is sending in the flip with the card to get regraded. You can send the flips back at any time and they'll know to adjust the pop report accordingly.

[sporteq]

When were the lower grades offered and what was the final hammer price on them? if anyone has that info, thanks.

[autograf]

I can't see the 'send in the flips' crowd out there. Explain how if this Cobb gets a 9 why anyone would want to send in a flip that was a 6 or an 8. I understand the 'keep the Pop report right' scenario, but isn't it to the high grade crowd's favor to have MORE lower graded cards in the Pop report--right or wrong--than to be sure it's 'right'. The more cards at a lower level, the more impact that saying '1 of 1' or '1 of 2' really gets. I can't believe many people send in flips after cracking and resubmitting.....

[ergoism]

Stain removal from cards seems like such a gray area. If you showed me a nice 52 Mantle at auction then showed me an earlier picture of the card that showed tape stains, I'd still have the same level of interest in the card. However, if I saw a picture of the card and saw that it was recolored, re-backed, or had corners or edges rebuilt, then I'd have a problem as it would then be someone else's creation.

If it was a chemical process that could lead to long term damage of the card, I'd be worried. But from what I understand, the process isn't harmful to cards. If someone wants to take the Mantle in this PWCC listing and remove the stains then sell me the card a few grades higher, I truly wouldn't mind.

I understand everyone has their own opinions on this and some view it as taboo since there is no disclosure in most cases. I'm a big fan of 80s Fleer basketball cards. If I open a wax box and decide to grade a few stickers, before I sell do I need to let someone know that these cards came with wax stuck on them and I had to take it off with panty hose?

SCD did a very informative interview with stain remover Dick Towle that sheds some light on the process. It's worth a read: http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.co...res/nerattowle

[Peter_Spaeth]

So fading the colors is not harming the card?

[benchod]

Faded colors and a chemical smell that is distinctive

[DeanH3]

I read that article years ago but it's great to read it again. To me the biggest problem I have is the non disclosure. If it's not seen as an overall negative, then why don't these prominent dealers say upfront why has been done to their cards? Well we all know the answer to that....M-O-N-E-Y! I might still be ok with buying a card that has had something removed. I just want to know upfront and let me decide.

[bosoxphan]

Im surprised we havent had a restored classification in the hobby yet, much like what has happened with comic books

[DICKTOWLE]

Originally Posted by ergoism

stain removal from cards seems like such a gray area. If you showed me a nice 52 mantle at auction then showed me an earlier picture of the card that showed tape stains, i'd still have the same level of interest in the card. However, if i saw a picture of the card and saw that it was recolored, re-backed, or had corners or edges rebuilt, then i'd have a problem as it would then be someone else's creation.

If it was a chemical process that could lead to long term damage of the card, i'd be worried. But from what i understand, the process isn't harmful to cards. If someone wants to take the mantle in this pwcc listing and remove the stains then sell me the card a few grades higher, i truly wouldn't mind.

I understand everyone has their own opinions on this and some view it as taboo since there is no disclosure in most cases. I'm a big fan of 80s fleer basketball cards. If i open a wax box and decide to grade a few stickers, before i sell do i need to let someone know that these cards came with wax stuck on them and i had to take it off with panty hose?

Scd did a very informative interview with stain remover dick towle that sheds some light on the process. It's worth a read: http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.co...res/nerattowle

for 22 years many people are pleased with all the work that was done to cards. There are some people that drive around cars with dents and say the car is great, there are people that get the dent out.this is a choice people have like cards- if a water stain can be removed and the card is a 5 before and now gets 8 well--again gonewiththestain.com says it all. Our family enjoys the work and the great people who i work for. Thank you a god bless

[MetsBaseball1973]

No expert but just taking a hard look at the pictures provided. That Wagner 6 does not have the same top border width as the Wagner 9, to my eye. The top border widths look different. It's also worth noting that multiple cards can have the same print dot.

Also, there is a small black dot to the left of the 9 Cobb's head that is not present on the 6 pictured.

Doubtless stain removal happens and gives cards a telltale washed-out look, but it doesn't look to my eyes at least like the cards pictured here are the same, given the Wagner border width and the PD in the Cobb being only on the 9.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by DICKTOWLE

for 22 years many people are pleased with all the work that was done to cards. There are some people that drive around cars with dents and say the car is great, there are people that get the dent out.this is a choice people have like cards- if a water stain can be removed and the card is a 5 before and now gets 8 well--again gonewiththestain.com says it all. Our family enjoys the work and the great people who i work for. Thank you a god bless

I would be pleased too, if altering a card with solvents and whatever else you do enabled me to get it past a grading service and make a nice profit when I sell it without disclosure. Do you think by chance any of your clients are doing that, Dick?