Altered high grade E93s in Mile High?

[ullmandds]

"By the TPGs' standards you are making unacceptable alterations to cards."

How can such practices be unacceptable to the TPG'ers if they can't even tell if they were done?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

"By the TPGs' standards you are making unacceptable alterations to cards."

How can such practices be unacceptable to the TPG'ers if they can't even tell if they were done?

Pete that is just not worthy of you. The practices are unacceptable, period, in the eyes of the TPGs. They say so, right in their standards. That there are people good enough to DECEIVE the TPGs -- who by the way don't have crime labs -- is a completely different point, and shows only that there are fraudsters out there.

By your logic, Pete, it's OK to rob a bank if you get away with it. Think about it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The practices are unacceptable, period, in the eyes of the TPGs.

No they're not. They say no "Evidence" of it. Again, there is a difference.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By your logic, Pete, it's OK to rob a bank if you get away with it. Think about it.

If there is no evidence that you robbed the bank, how can you be convicted?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

No they're not. They say no "Evidence" of it. Again, there is a difference.



If there is no evidence that you robbed the bank, how can you be convicted?

That is lame beyond belief. So you think they are saying, it's unacceptable to alter a card only if you leave evidence that it was altered? That is one of the most absurd things I ever have read. No, David, they are saying the practice is unacceptable. Now they might screw up and miss the evidence, or they might not have equipment sophisticated enough to detect the evidence, but that sure as hell does not mean really good alteration is acceptable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Lemme put it another way for you. They will reject a card when there is EVIDENCE of alteration. That does not mean it is ACCEPTABLE to alter a card in such a way that they might miss the evidence, or be unable to detect it due to technical limitations or lack of resources.

[calvindog]

This is like watching Godzilla vs. Mothra -- in the battle of cunning linguists. First guy to pass out cold from splitting hairs loses.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That is lame beyond belief. So you think they are saying, it's unacceptable to alter a card only if you leave evidence that it was altered? That is one of the most absurd things I ever have read. No, David, they are saying the practice is unacceptable. Now they might screw up and miss the evidence, or they might not have equipment sophisticated enough to detect the evidence, but that sure as hell does not mean really good alteration is acceptable.

Do you really think if I have a card with wax residue on the front and I clean it with a solution that can't be detected and doesn't alter the stock in any way, that PSA really gives a crap???

[Peter_Spaeth]

Until they change their public standards, David, I will take them at face value.

[benjulmag]

The logical extension of the argument that it is okay to alter cards if the alteration is undetectable is that it would also be okay to CREATE a card if the creation is undetectable. So if hypothetically the original printing plate of the T206 Wagner is someday found, and if I can find period paper and period dyes that forensically test and look identical how a "real" Wagner would test and look, it is okay that I just created a $3 million plus card?

So let's say this happens and it gets slabbed a 9. The overjoyed buyer, having no knowledge of what happened (because after all I am the only person who knows what went on), would be totally cool if I should later divulge what happened? Don't you think anyone in that position would be outraged, feeling he/she had been defrauded and that such a thing should not be allowed to take place in the hobby?

[bnorth]

Would it be ethical to sell this 1958 Blue Front Hank Aaron #30 Topps card knowing it is altered if PSA or SGC would give it a # grade? It is a only known version. It has the blue background, Missing yellow in Milwaukee Braves, but has perfect yellow in the Braves logo. It is an amazing card. If your answer is yes PM me with outrageous offer.

[4815162342]

SGC only uses the word "evidence" for trimmed cards, not for Altered, Bleached, Color Added, Power Erased, Pressed, Rebuilt, or Resurfaced.

http://sgccard.com/GradingScale.aspx

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