SGC T206s....It needs to be brought up, it's scary, very scary if you are a collector

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Kevin, I have of course noticed the same price gaps between sgc and psa. Just curious why they won't cross?

I'm sure a lot of it is political, for whatever that's worth. The bottom line is SGC graded cards are nowhere near as strong as PSA, especially right now. There are a couple of T206 HOFer SGC 84's on Ebay right now that are ridiculous looking for the grade.

[Touch'EmAll]

This year I joined PSA and tried to cross a handful of high end cards ($750-$3500.). I only was successful with a Ty Cobb Colgan's Chips going from SGC 88, now PSA 8. There went a few hundred bucks out the window.

But I do know I bought the SGC cards for less - thats why I bought them. So I have decided to pay less for SGC, keep them, and be ok with that. Whenever I do sell, remember I paid less for them to begin with.

My SGC purchases are few these days, way vast majority of my stuff is PSA. For me to buy SGC they have to be 55/45 or better centered, and solid for the grade corners per my own eye. For instance, I picked up a sweet 1955 Topps Aaron SGC 88 that i swear up and down is every bit the equivalent of PSA 8, but I paid less, will keep in SGC, and be happy.

The way SGC grades off center material is one of their biggest pitfalls, they should have had OC designations like PSA - then bet SGC would fare better overall, just my 2 cents.

SGC does, however, grade a few issues PSA does not - I send them to SGC, no problems - example s74 silks, old Wheaties issues.

Pay no more than 80 percent of avg. PSA sales value,get very nice centered items, scrutinize corners with your own eye, then ok to buy SGC.

Done with crossovers, too many certain words exit my mouth. And too much money leaves my wallet.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

This year I joined PSA and tried to cross a handful of high end cards ($750-$3500.). I only was successful with a Ty Cobb Colgan's Chips going from SGC 88, now PSA 8. There went a few hundred bucks out the window.

But I do know I bought the SGC cards for less - thats why I bought them. So I have decided to pay less for SGC, keep them, and be ok with that. Whenever I do sell, remember I paid less for them to begin with.

My SGC purchases are few these days, way vast majority of my stuff is PSA. For me to buy SGC they have to be 55/45 or better centered, and solid for the grade corners per my own eye. For instance, I picked up a sweet 1955 Topps Aaron SGC 88 that i swear up and down is every bit the equivalent of PSA 8, but I paid less, will keep in SGC, and be happy.

The way SGC grades off center material is one of their biggest pitfalls, they should have had OC designations like PSA - then bet SGC would fare better overall, just my 2 cents.

SGC does, however, grade a few issues PSA does not - I send them to SGC, no problems - example s74 silks, old Wheaties issues.

Pay no more than 80 percent of avg. PSA sales value,get very nice centered items, scrutinize corners with your own eye, then ok to buy SGC.

Done with crossovers, too many certain words exit my mouth. And too much money leaves my wallet.

I hear you, just out of curiousity, what did you pay for the SGC 88 54 Topps Aaron? Now, what's it worth in a PSA 8?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I hear you, just out of curiousity, what did you pay for the SGC 88 54 Topps Aaron? Now, what's it worth in a PSA 8? Please be honest....

He said 55 not the rookie.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He said 55 not the rookie.

Thanks for the clarification Peter, but it really does not matter...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Part of it is that for the most part PSA now has incredibly strict grading standards. Today's 7 is yesterday's 8. I have seen 5s and 6s that are NM to the eye and almost certainly would have graded higher in years past. So in a sense it's not apples to apples, as SGC grading seems to have stayed more consistent.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Part of it is that for the most part PSA now has incredibly strict grading standards. Today's 7 is yesterday's 8. I have seen 5s and 6s that are NM to the eye and almost certainly would have graded higher in years past. So in a sense it's not apples to apples, as SGC grading seems to have stayed more consistent.

Peter, forget all that...Come on...A T206 PSA 7 Cobb vs. an SGC 84 Cobb, same card, same centering, same everything.....Value?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Peter, forget all that...Come on...A T206 PSA 7 Cobb vs. an SGC 84 Cobb, same card, same centering, same everything.....Value?

PSA will sell for more but in part that is because there is a perception that PSA is stricter. The registry is less of a factor than it used to be IMO. Many or most of the current major collectors have built their sets and in some cases are getting out. Low pop commons ain't what they used to be.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Part of it is that for the most part PSA now has incredibly strict grading standards. Today's 7 is yesterday's 8. I have seen 5s and 6s that are NM to the eye and almost certainly would have graded higher in years past. So in a sense it's not apples to apples, as SGC grading seems to have stayed more consistent.

not sure about post-war, but modern stuff they're handing out GEM MINT 10s left and right. imo it's great for prewar collectors if the sgc/psa value gap is that big, you get more bang for the bucks with sgc cards.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

not sure about post-war, but modern stuff they're handing out GEM MINT 10s left and right. imo it's great for prewar collectors if the sgc/psa value gap is that big, you get more bang for the bucks with sgc cards.

Quan, so you obviously agree about the difference in the value, right? That is all I was trying to state at the beginning of the thread...

[tbob]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

not sure about post-war, but modern stuff they're handing out GEM MINT 10s left and right. imo it's great for prewar collectors if the sgc/psa value gap is that big, you get more bang for the bucks with sgc cards.

+1

[Econteachert205]

I collect lower grade tobacco so it effects me less. I can appreciate not wanting to crack and resubmit. I have bought cards graded good and very good that if resubmitted would only grade fair or poor. Again it matters less at the low end but if you have a nm in sgc t206 and you crack and resubmit and it only scores a 6 that could be hundreds of dollars. I have to believe it's mostly a registry issue, I think the bulk of collectors are aware sgc is reputable.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

I collect lower grade tobacco so it effects me less. I can appreciate not wanting to crack and resubmit. I have bought cards graded good and very good that if resubmitted would only grade fair or poor. Again it matters less at the low end but if you have a nm in sgc t206 and you crack and resubmit and it only scores a 6 that could be hundreds of dollars. I have to believe it's mostly a registry issue, I think the bulk of collectors are aware sgc is reputable.

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

Right, so I was thinking of where the extra value came from. If both companies are reputable then there is only a limited amount of variables contributing to psa's enhanced appeal. The registry seems to be the biggest factor. However some of the grading advantages in terms of a lack of qualifiers are also valid for sure. If I was sgc I would certainly take these concerns seriously and take steps to assure customers cards values are protected.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Right, so I was thinking of where the extra value came from. If both companies are reputable then there is only a limited amount of variables contributing to psa's enhanced appeal. The registry seems to be the biggest factor. However some of the grading advantages in terms of a lack of qualifiers are also valid for sure. If I was sgc I would certainly take these concerns seriously and take steps to assure customers cards values are protected.

I guess buy the holder not the card

[wonkaticket]

The value of most "quality" cards isn't determined by a major TPG holder. Yes will certain cards sell for more over another sure that's the hobby. Will some things in PSA get more due to registry no doubt. In the end if you're buying nice examples of cards in any grade that tick all the boxes (centering, color, register) in either SGC or PSA you will be fine.

[Vintagecatcher]

Has anyone here forgot how PSA launched their brand with the T206 Wagner...strict grades...what BS!

Patrick

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

I have been arguing this point from the beginning..also on private deals with people here who always argue 'pre-war sgc is just as good' .

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

I'm going to have to agree about the value but then disagree as far as grading is concerned. SGC is far better and light years more consistent than PSA is concerned.

SGC's presentation is far better. PSA's holder I feel keeps the card more secure though.

PSA's resale value is second to none. Why well it's the name of course. It's like selling a Kershaw(PSA) to a Chris Sale(SGC). One is overhyped and loses in the playoffs every year. And one quietly goes about his business dominating. But because the other is from LA (Kershaw/PSA) who gets more attention ????

I'll always like and trust SGC's grading consistency over PSA. I will also note that I will not buy a card slabbed with anything other than SGC or PSA.

[esd10]

Psa was founded on a lie and deception with the Psa 8 t206 wagner and i have always questioned if some of these auction houses and "elite" collectors could buy a grade they want because of the money they spend. I might be way off base with the ability to purchase a grade but it seems that way to me at some of these cards I have seen graded that don't deserve the high grade they have received.

[VintageJay]

Originally Posted by esd10

Psa was founded on a lie and deception with the Psa 8 t206 wagner and i have always questioned if some of these auction houses and "elite" collectors could buy a grade they want because of the money they spend. I might be way off base with the ability to purchase a grade but it seems that way to me at some of these cards I have seen graded that don't deserve the high grade they have received.

I couldn't agree more.

Also, to say PSA is better than SGC or vice versa is just ridiculous. Both grading companies, at least the last I checked, have humans on their payroll. And with humans, comes human error.

Both companies have hundreds, if not thousands, of undergraded/overgraded cards.

Most of us here have been collecting a lot longer than some of these "experts" that grade these cards.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by VintageJay

I couldn't agree more.

Also, to say PSA is better than SGC or vice versa is just ridiculous. Both grading companies, at least the last I checked, have humans on their payroll. And with humans, comes human error.

Both companies have hundreds, if not thousands, of undergraded/overgraded cards.

Most of us here have been collecting a lot longer than some of these "experts" that grade these cards.

Actually, I think the OP stated that PSA cards sell consistantly higher than SGC cards - not that one is "better" than the other.

Last month, I did my own research on eBay concerning this. I used T206 Green Cobb, 62 Topps Maris, 69 Topps Mantle and 75 Topps Aaron. Without exception, the PSA sold 15% or more higher than the SGC of equal grade.

I know this as a fact. I simply looked for myself.

[Luke]

I haven't read all of this thread, so forgive me if this has already been said:

I have sent a lot of tobacco cards to both PSA and SGC lately, and I think the main difference in price is that the two companies are using different grading scales. A few years ago we used to joke around on here about some terrible cards in PSA 3-5 holders. I think they have over-corrected, because they are grading very tough right now. SGC seems to be grading a little bit easier than they used to. I have a bunch of VGEX-ish raw cards that I'm getting ready to submit, and I know they will get between 3.5 and 4 from PSA, and 55-60 from SGC.

It would be great for collectors if all grading companies used the same standards, but I don't think they have ever claimed that they do. Right now, a PSA 4 is going to cost more than an SGC 50, and it should because in almost all cases, it will be in better condition.

For the lower end of the grading spectrum, I haven't noticed much difference. But it is very clear in the mid-grades. I don't personally have any experience with submitting high-grade cards.