OT - New Hall of Famers: Bagwell, Raines and Ivan Rodriguez

[CMIZ5290]

All well deserving, glad C. Jones didn't get in. I'm a life long Braves fan but this guy has been an ass hole his entire career, especially to the media and fans. You don't think that matters in the end? He is a rich man's J.D. Drew...

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

All well deserving, glad C. Jones didn't get in. I'm a life long Braves fan but this guy has been an ass hole his entire career, especially to the media and fans. You don't think that matters in the end? He is a rich man's J.D. Drew...

Chipper Jones? He's on the ballot for the first time next year and will get in first ballot.

[90feetaway]

Just my opinion. Neither dominated the sport. Pudge was dominant at catcher which is a thin position. I think Vlad deserves a spot.

[conor912]

"Sold" listings for Raines' RC on Ebay in the last couple hours are pretty impressive.

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by icollectDCsports

Chipper Jones? He's on the ballot for the first time next year and will get in first ballot.

Yeah I laughed pretty hard at that post too.

[Pilot172000]

1991 Topps Stadium club RC of Jeff Bagwells was one of my first "Big Cards" to pull. Being a Rangers fan, I got to see Pudge play in 94. I love this class. If would have been perfect is Vladdy had made it.

[z28jd]

I have no problem with Rodriguez getting in, but he was clearly a PED guy. My problem is the double standard that allows the leader of the era, Bud "I did nothing except collect a seven-figure salary until congress forced it, then took all of the credit" Selig, and a known PED user to go in on the first ballot, but Bonds and Clemens got passed up again.

Rodriguez was named in Canseco's book along with everyone else who was found guilty. He came back looking like a bobblehead the first year they started testing and his power dropped, plus he refused to answer questions on PED's. Others who covered the Rangers also either agreed with Canseco's accusation of him, or had their own suspicions before the book.

These voters are showing a ridiculous bias towards players they didn't like as players, or they just didn't know any better so they go with the masses. MLB made certain players scapegoats and other players skated with no issues. I doubt Mark McGwire is any more guilty than Rodriguez, but he will likely never get in the Hall of Fame because he was a face of the era.

Basically, voters just need to be consistent. You either vote in the PED players or you don't, but you don't pick and choose the ones you want in based on spite.

[Moyni]

Tonight's announcement also makes these cards even cooler. The only two catchers elected on their first ballots.

[conor912]

This was a fun read...some interesting tidbits about the voting in the early days.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article...017-inductions

[triwak]

Not to veer too far OT, but has anyone found anything card-wise of John Schuerholz yet? Selig is easy.

[seanofjapan]

Really glad to see Raines finally getting in, its ridiculous that he had to wait until his last shot.

Its a bit bittersweet, he is probably the last guy who will go in as an Expo (except maybe Vladi, but he might go in as an Angel). Which is sort of the last big MLB related thing we had to look forward too that involved the team.

Well, until Montreal gets a new team at least.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I have no problem with Rodriguez getting in, but he was clearly a PED guy. My problem is the double standard that allows the leader of the era, Bud "I did nothing except collect a seven-figure salary until congress forced it, then took all of the credit" Selig, and a known PED user to go in on the first ballot, but Bonds and Clemens got passed up again.

Rodriguez was named in Canseco's book along with everyone else who was found guilty. He came back looking like a bobblehead the first year they started testing and his power dropped, plus he refused to answer questions on PED's. Others who covered the Rangers also either agreed with Canseco's accusation of him, or had their own suspicions before the book.

These voters are showing a ridiculous bias towards players they didn't like as players, or they just didn't know any better so they go with the masses. MLB made certain players scapegoats and other players skated with no issues. I doubt Mark McGwire is any more guilty than Rodriguez, but he will likely never get in the Hall of Fame because he was a face of the era.

Basically, voters just need to be consistent. You either vote in the PED players or you don't, but you don't pick and choose the ones you want in based on spite.

From what I gather from talk radio, for some reporters what defines a PED user is if the player confessed or was mentioned in any report. If that is the case the reporter votes "no". The evidence has to be more than, "look at how much bigger he is." There has to be some evidence no matter how weak. Some say there already is a PED user in the HOF. It would be interesting to see a player who is voted in, is handed his plaque and months later reveals he was a PED user.

As the older members of the BBWAA die off the known PED users with HOF credentials will be inducted.

[bxb]

I expected Trevor Hoffman to get in this time.

Over 600 saves! I thought it was his year.

[glynparson]

I THINK ITS A JOKE TO PUT PUDGE,PIAZZA,BIGGIO,AND BAGWELL IN BEFORE BONDS AND CLEMENS. OOPs didn't mean to caps lock. I am as confident they all were juicers. Id vote for all of them but think its funny that we seem to be ok with juicers unless you were too good and broke records see McGwire, Sosa, Bonds.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by biohazard

From what I gather from talk radio, for some reporters what defines a PED user is if the player confessed or was mentioned in any report. If that is the case the reporter votes "no". The evidence has to be more than, "look at how much bigger he is." There has to be some evidence no matter how weak. Some say there already is a PED user in the HOF. It would be interesting to see a player who is voted in, is handed his plaque and months later reveals he was a PED user.

As the older members of the BBWAA die off the known PED users with HOF credentials will be inducted.

Pedro Martinez did it last year. I seen an interview with him shortly after being elected. He talked about doing PED's with Manny Ramirez before games. The interviewer was doing everything he could to change the subject ASAP. Then some how it was/has never been brought up again.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Pedro Martinez did it last year. I seen an interview with him shortly after being elected. He talked about doing PED's with Manny Ramirez before games. The interviewer was doing everything he could to change the subject ASAP. Then some how it was/has never been brought up again.

Funny the way that works. What' sad is Manny was a hundred times the hitter Fat Sloppy is and he'll get in no problem. The biggest mouth ever for someone who failed a drug test. Boston writers even trash that guy, yet he appears to be getting a free pass for god knows what reason.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Pedro Martinez did it last year. I seen an interview with him shortly after being elected. He talked about doing PED's with Manny Ramirez before games.

Do you have a link? I don't recall Pedro ever admitting to doing PEDs ...

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Basically, voters just need to be consistent. You either vote in the PED players or you don't, but you don't pick and choose the ones you want in based on spite.

I completely agree with this..it's either all or none. But we are talking about the BBWAA. I believe it was 9 of them in 1982 that didn't think Hank Aaron was a first ballot hall of famer.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I have no problem with Rodriguez getting in, but he was clearly a PED guy. My problem is the double standard that allows the leader of the era, Bud "I did nothing except collect a seven-figure salary until congress forced it, then took all of the credit" Selig, and a known PED user to go in on the first ballot, but Bonds and Clemens got passed up again.

Rodriguez was named in Canseco's book along with everyone else who was found guilty. He came back looking like a bobblehead the first year they started testing and his power dropped, plus he refused to answer questions on PED's. Others who covered the Rangers also either agreed with Canseco's accusation of him, or had their own suspicions before the book.

These voters are showing a ridiculous bias towards players they didn't like as players, or they just didn't know any better so they go with the masses. MLB made certain players scapegoats and other players skated with no issues. I doubt Mark McGwire is any more guilty than Rodriguez, but he will likely never get in the Hall of Fame because he was a face of the era.

Basically, voters just need to be consistent. You either vote in the PED players or you don't, but you don't pick and choose the ones you want in based on spite.

+1

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I have no problem with Rodriguez getting in, but he was clearly a PED guy. My problem is the double standard that allows the leader of the era, Bud "I did nothing except collect a seven-figure salary until congress forced it, then took all of the credit" Selig, and a known PED user to go in on the first ballot, but Bonds and Clemens got passed up again.

Rodriguez was named in Canseco's book along with everyone else who was found guilty. He came back looking like a bobblehead the first year they started testing and his power dropped, plus he refused to answer questions on PED's. Others who covered the Rangers also either agreed with Canseco's accusation of him, or had their own suspicions before the book.

These voters are showing a ridiculous bias towards players they didn't like as players, or they just didn't know any better so they go with the masses. MLB made certain players scapegoats and other players skated with no issues. I doubt Mark McGwire is any more guilty than Rodriguez, but he will likely never get in the Hall of Fame because he was a face of the era.

Basically, voters just need to be consistent. You either vote in the PED players or you don't, but you don't pick and choose the ones you want in based on spite.

Agree 100%, great post.