OT - New Hall of Famers: Bagwell, Raines and Ivan Rodriguez

bbcard1 · #1 01-19-2017, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

As for Raines, he was unfortunate enough to play for mostly crappy teams and play in the shadow of the greatest leadoff man in history.

You are correct of course concerning the teams Raines played on, but in the twilight of his career he was still good enough to be a contributor to arguably one of the greatest teams of all time.

He was also really the only player who lost peak playing time due to the collusion of major league owners.

howard38 · #2 01-19-2017, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1

You are correct of course concerning the teams Raines played on, but in the twilight of his career he was still good enough to be a contributor to arguably one of the greatest teams of all time.

He was also really the only player who lost peak playing time due to the collusion of major league owners.

The Expos teams Raines played for were actually pretty good. The problem was not bad teams but the fact that they were north of the border.

irv · #3 01-19-2017, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

1991 Topps Stadium club RC of Jeff Bagwells was one of my first "Big Cards" to pull. Being a Rangers fan, I got to see Pudge play in 94. I love this class. If would have been perfect is Vladdy had made it.

Not surprising, but glad to see they are getting some love. I remember buying many packs of 91 Stadium Club cards and was always thrilled whenever I pulled a Bagwell. One of my favorite players during that, and no mention/talk of PED's.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_prod...temCondition=4

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycks22

I'm with Bagwell / Pudge, but against Raines. His first year of voting he got 24% and never got higher than 5th in MVP voting. He also never had 200 hits in a year, but had over 700 abs in 4 years. He played forever to get his 2800 hits and averaged only 163 hits per season. The last 13 years of his career he never received an MVP vote, never made an all-star team. He was good, but never great.

You are missing a few points for some reason?

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episode...fame-1.3929035

campyfan39 · #4 01-19-2017, 09:34 PM

I'll take Gil and Shil over all three of them!

sycks22 · #5 01-20-2017, 07:42 AM

You are missing a few points for some reason?

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episode...fame-1.3929035[/QUOTE]

I'm missing that he had over 800 stolen bases? 2,600 hits for a 24 year career is far from impressive. Bill Buckner had more hits in less years, is he a hall of famer? One category (SB's) shouldn't be the main reason to get someone in the hall. Kenny Lofton led the lead in sbs the same amount as Raines and had a higher career batting average, should he be in? Raines was above average, not great

rats60 · #6 01-20-2017, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycks22

You are missing a few points for some reason?

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episode...fame-1.3929035

I'm missing that he had over 800 stolen bases? 2,600 hits for a 24 year career is far from impressive. Bill Buckner had more hits in less years, is he a hall of famer? One category (SB's) shouldn't be the main reason to get someone in the hall. Kenny Lofton led the lead in sbs the same amount as Raines and had a higher career batting average, should he be in? Raines was above average, not great[/QUOTE]

He walked a lot. That is somehow supposed to make up for him not being a great hitter. 135th in OBP right between Earl Torgeson and Tim Salmon, two great players. He wasn't a good defensive player. He was fast and stole a lot of bases. Let's start a campaign to elect Eddie Yost and Darrell Evans to the hof.

rdixon1208 · #7 01-20-2017, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

I'm missing that he had over 800 stolen bases? 2,600 hits for a 24 year career is far from impressive. Bill Buckner had more hits in less years, is he a hall of famer? One category (SB's) shouldn't be the main reason to get someone in the hall. Kenny Lofton led the lead in sbs the same amount as Raines and had a higher career batting average, should he be in? Raines was above average, not great

I agree with this. He was pretty good, but not a HOF player in my opinion. Baseball-Reference also has him as below average HOF in every statistical category (black ink, grey ink, HOF standards, etc.).

conor912 · #8 01-20-2017, 10:06 AM

The system is set up in a way that allows for B and C tier HOFers. Ten years on the ballot is absurd. For a truly elite HOF it would be one year.....One chance.....In or out.

sycks22 · #9 01-20-2017, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

I'm missing that he had over 800 stolen bases? 2,600 hits for a 24 year career is far from impressive. Bill Buckner had more hits in less years, is he a hall of famer? One category (SB's) shouldn't be the main reason to get someone in the hall. Kenny Lofton led the lead in sbs the same amount as Raines and had a higher career batting average, should he be in? Raines was above average, not great

He walked a lot. That is somehow supposed to make up for him not being a great hitter. 135th in OBP right between Earl Torgeson and Tim Salmon, two great players. He wasn't a good defensive player. He was fast and stole a lot of bases. Let's start a campaign to elect Eddie Yost and Darrell Evans to the hof.[/QUOTE]

agree

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