ethical question

[Mark17]

Let's say TPG company XYZ grades a card a 4. At that point, that card "becomes" a XYZ 4. So if an innocent person (someone who is unaware of any alterations/fraud) buys it, they have bought a XYZ 4. If they then sell it, they are selling a correctly described XYZ 4.

So the issue later becomes whether or not the TPG should have graded the card a XYZ 4 in the first place. If a mistake was made at that point, that would be where the responsibility lies.

It's similar to any mis-graded card. If a TPG grades a card a 6 when it should've been a 3, that card will still be honestly and ethically bought and sold as a XYZ 6.

My point is, when company XYZ gives a card a grade, that card is then correctly represented as a card with that grade, and no subsequent seller who is unaware of any fraud involving that card has any responsibility for the grade that card was given.

If I buy a graded card from an honest dealer that later turns out to have been altered, I would not ask or expect the seller to accept a return, because he sold me an accurately described card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Let's say TPG company XYZ grades a card a 4. At that point, that card "becomes" a XYZ 4. So if an innocent person (someone who is unaware of any alterations/fraud) buys it, they have bought a XYZ 4. If they then sell it, they are selling a correctly described XYZ 4.

So the issue later becomes whether or not the TPG should have graded the card a XYZ 4 in the first place. If a mistake was made at that point, that would be where the responsibility lies.

It's similar to any mis-graded card. If a TPG grades a card a 6 when it should've been a 3, that card will still be honestly and ethically bought and sold as a XYZ 6.

My point is, when company XYZ gives a card a grade, that card is then correctly represented as a card with that grade, and no subsequent seller who is unaware of any fraud involving that card has any responsibility for the grade that card was given.

If I buy a graded card from an honest dealer that later turns out to have been altered, I would not ask or expect the seller to accept a return, because he sold me an accurately described card.

Mark, if there were no TPG guarantees, as in the case of a Beckett card, would you feel the same way? I expect you might but just clarifying thanks.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Mark, if there were no TPG guarantees, as in the case of a Beckett card, would you feel the same way? I expect you might but just clarifying thanks.

I think if you even have to ask the question, you probably know the answer. I would refund because I would intuitively feel that was the right thing to do. That's just me though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I think if you even have to ask the question, you probably know the answer. I would refund because I would intuitively feel that was the right thing to do. That's just me though.

And it may well be just you.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Mark, if there were no TPG guarantees, as in the case of a Beckett card, would you feel the same way? I expect you might but just clarifying thanks.

Peter, it is a good and fair question and my answer would be that while I would not blame the seller for misrepresentation, if I was unhappy with the card (based on the revelation it had been doctored at some point) I may ask if I can return it based on the fact I am not happy with it.

The difference is that if Beckett is grading cards while making no guarantees, then that is not much different than my mailman glancing at a card, shrugging his shoulders, and saying "Looks real to me." In other words I would consider a graded card with no TPG guarantee to be essentially a raw card, and I do think buyers should be able to return raw cards to sellers within a reasonable time frame.