Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by howard38

"If anything, that's a negative against Ford. That's Stengel saying "yeah, this guy isn't durable enough to pitch regularly."

This is a reach. Ford proved his durability as soon as the Yankees let Stengel go. In Ford's first & third seasons w/o Stengel as his manager he led the league in IP & over his last five seasons he led in total IP.

If Stengel thought he could do it, he would have. Any other explanation is just a way of saying Stengel wasn't trying his best to win as many games as possible. "Ford is available but I'll go ahead and pitch this other guy who isn't as good".

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Tabe

If Stengel thought he could do it, he would have. Any other explanation is just a way of saying Stengel wasn't trying his best to win as many games as possible. "Ford is available but I'll go ahead and pitch this other guy who isn't as good".

I read it that Stengel had pitchers in the bullpen that could beat the easier opponents and didn't want to risk his best pitcher.

I mean, why play Ford against Kansas City when Bob Turley could do the job against the worst team in baseball at the time

[G1911]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I read it that Stengel had pitchers in the bullpen that could beat the easier opponents and didn't want to risk his best pitcher.

I mean, why play Ford against Kansas City when Bob Turley could do the job against the worst team in baseball at the time

I've read this in many books, including by teammates. The claim is frequently made in the literature on the 50's Yankees. After taking a look at the statistics and his innings by opponent, lifetime and during the individual systems in the mid-late 50's when Ford was established, and Stengel was the manager, the claim is not really true.

He DID start inordinately against the White Sox, but there's not much else in the individual team matchups to support this.

He pitched 1,707 innings against teams greater than .500, 1,463 against teams under. The discrepancy actually mostly comes from the 60's, after Stengel had been fired. He did pitch better against successful teams than poor ones, 2.68 against winnings clubs, 2.83 against.

The specific claim, that Stengel's saved Ford to face the good teams, checks out as generally false (I would be shocked if this did not occasionally happen, as it does with many pitchers), BUT this does reflect well on Ford. He did pitch a bit more against good teams than bad, and, unusually, he performed better against winning teams over his career than bad ones.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I read it that Stengel had pitchers in the bullpen that could beat the easier opponents and didn't want to risk his best pitcher.

I mean, why play Ford against Kansas City when Bob Turley could do the job against the worst team in baseball at the time

Well, in 1958, for example, Ford had 5 starts against KC out of only 29 all year. In 1959, he had 4 starts out of 29. In other words, exactly the number you'd expect him to have when facing 7 different opponents all season. Other years, he had less. A review of his career starts against various opponents shows the quantity to be pretty bunched together other than the White Sox (his most-frequent opponent).

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Tabe

If Stengel thought he could do it, he would have. Any other explanation is just a way of saying Stengel wasn't trying his best to win as many games as possible. "Ford is available but I'll go ahead and pitch this other guy who isn't as good".

I'm sure Stengel was trying his best to win but that doesn't mean he was always right.